Torture – When Fear Triumphs Over Reason

@Brooke: I was wondering the exact same thing. If it’s not torture, please, demonstrate. I’m sure Olbermann will make the same deal with this idiot. They talk tough, but it’s a different story if *they* have water being forced down their nose & throat. How about if we take care of this & the torture loving Republicans sit this one out…unless, they care to demonstrate how waterboarding is merely splashing water on someone’s face.

Be sure to check out this guys blog article. Look at the comments at the bottom! Hateful & xenophobia is still in style with the Repubs.

mario says, “Neocons – a dangerous group who have lost touch with the meaning and essence of America.”

What about those of us who think the “meaning and essence of America is to protect the lives and well being of innocent Americans? At all costs?

That’s where I feel your ideology sick. Any sacrifice at the altar of your naive ideology is “Okay”.

janine, so I see you don’t care to address the concept of saving innocent American lives at all costs?

While I may sacrifice my “humanity”, I won’t be sacrificing your live or the lives of your loved ones for some convoluted concept of righteousness.

@Tennessean

I see you don’t care about differences between people. It’s your view or no view.

btw, is there a difference between your brand of violence and a terrorist? does it make the violence any more palatable if you torture under the auspicious of religion, flag and country? Don’t you think that is what the ‘terrorist’ is doing? — peddling his brand of violence under the auspicious of religion, flag and country?

It isn’t righteousness to decry violence begetting violence or to suggest that violence in response to violence isn’t the answer, or to say that torture doesn’t work. We’ve moved beyond the stone age and territorialism, Tennessean, however, your self-righteous argument belies that advance in humanity.

@Tennessean

Perhaps Frances was speaking in political satirical tones. ever consider that? or are you just indulging, yet again, in your own special brand of ignorance and bigotry?

janine, hypocritical. What would you have said if myself or some other like minded person had done something similar?

janine, I know you are, but what am I.

There. That should be your speed. The “na-na-na-boo-boo” argument always seems to work so well with you guys.

@Anomaly100

you are so correct. They hid the atrocities for a reason, because they knew Americans wouldn’t like their tactics.

@ Tennessean “While I may sacrifice my “humanity”, I won’t be sacrificing your live or the lives of your loved ones for some convoluted concept of righteousness.”

Since when is being against TORTURE a “convoluted concept of righteousness?”

And if America was about “saving innocent lives at all costs” just imagine what “at all costs” would entail to do that. I absolutetly guarentee you that is not a state you want for this country.

“Frances says, “(as long as it’s ferriners or people with ferrin’ soundin’ names)”

Who talks like that? Or is that your own special brand of ignorance and bigotry?”

You can’t deny that there are people like that in this country. You can’t live in Tennessee and not know some personally. But actually, the proudly blatent bigots of this country are not the only ones insisting that all Muslims in the armed services be investigated.

You don’t have a leg to stand on in this issue. Torture is nothing more than a sick and cowardly act of vengeance ordered by and carried out by sick, cowardly, vengeful people. Following orders is no excuse. The truly brave are the ones who refuse to follow orders that they know are deeply wrong, against the military code of ethics, against internationl laws, and against treaties we have willfully signed.

I’ve noticed that you claim that someone is irrational or nonsensical any time you don’t have a valid argument to counter with. It makes me wonder what your biases are. You accuse me of being biased often enough without ever considering what your own biases might be. If I’m biased, at least it’s born of compassion for others and not the grab it and growl mentality of the “I’ve got mine” crowd. Whether it’s our political leanings or something else, I’m not sure. Why is Janine devoid of rational thought processes? Why do I not make sense and am ignorant and biased and make “low class and trashy attacks”? Are you convinced that by saying that you will invalidate what we say to everyone else? Are you hoping we will feel so chastised that we quit posting our opinions and you will “win”? I really wonder. I can understand you’re not getting along with good ‘ole Kenneth, he’s unabashedly brutal in his criticism of Republicans.

If you want to debate with us then debate for f*cks sake. But this “you’re irrational” bullsh*t is a non-starter and a cop out.

Anomaly, no. What is sick is letting someone die while you molly coddle some terrorist sitting in a chair laughing at you while someone else’s loved one dies.

Frances, so ignorance and bigotry is okay as long as it’s coming from the proper ideological perspective?? Can’t you guys see what hypocrites you are??

You say, “I’ve noticed that you claim that someone is irrational or nonsensical any time you don’t have a valid argument to counter with.”

That’s not accurate at all. I claim you are irrational and nonsensical when you are truly irrational and nonsensical. You’re like some little magpie with your parroting of liberal viewpoints on the evils of those that don’t fall in lockstep with twisted liberal thinking. Everything else you state I have responded to previously. Go back and re-read my response if you want to. I prefer to move on.

I see no need to debate any of you on anything. I’m simply sharing my views. And I understand that offends most of you. That someone can actually reach an informed conclusion that doesn’t agree with yours.

I have no interest in attempting to invalidate anything you or anyone else says. And where liberals are concerned, I’m perfectly content to let you wallow in the swill and degradation, the “Mental Illness” that is Radical Liberalism.

I’d really, TRULY be interested in seeing how high handed any of you would be if it was your Son or Daughter in imminent danger of death, and someone with information that could lead to their safety was not being compelled to surrender that information by any means necessary.

I have little tolerance for your faux sensibilities.

@Tennessean

well Tennessean, that nananabooboo remark is so far beneath the level of those you are attempting to ‘debate’ you must be wearing diving gear

I have little tolerance for your faux intellectualism

@Tennessean

and yet you consistently judge the level of those you are addressing, your every word drips with faux intelligence and those drips in turn fill up your intellectually dishonest pool.

And yes, congratulations, you have made your pejorative feelings explicitly clear

@Tennessean

and I’m sure someone thinks you are a very nice man. It’s your mentality that is screwed up…..

You want to have a discussion, have at it, I challenged you to that earlier in the day, said I didn’t think you could drop the pejoratives. And you have proven that you cannot.

You’re welcome

@Janine: You’re spot on here:

“your every word drips with faux intelligence and those drips in turn fill up your intellectually dishonest pool.”

To try to disprove something because of their political leanings is not intelligent. An open mind can learn. A closed one is stuck on “stupid.” I think that last line is a quote from Confucious. OK, now I’m just lying. It was Ben Franklin. Yeah, Franklin, that’s it. :-)

janine says, “I fear one day you’re going to go deaf listening to all the Beck, Limbaugh, Savage nonsense and your tongue may not hold up to the torture you put it through as you repeat all their talking points”

A tried and trusted response to disagreement with her liberal views.

Frances says, “Do you think that anyone with a liberal veiwpoint can’t possibly feel that way naturally and come to that philosophy through rational thought?”

And I continue to ask, What’s the difference?

@Tennessean

oh, now you are just using the Tennessee dictionary. Try Webster’s it has the true definition.

janine, points awarded for dictionary comment. Unfortunately, lost them on the straw one.

“Frances says, “Do you think that anyone with a liberal veiwpoint can’t possibly feel that way naturally and come to that philosophy through rational thought?”

“TN says: And I continue to ask, What’s the difference?”

What’s the difference between being a magpie and coming to a liberal viewpoint naturally or through rational thought? That’s a pretty elementary concept that you should be able to figure out for yourself.

I’m not the one siding with the people who downloaded their talking points from a Freedom Works affiliate before getting bussed down to the town hall meetings toting a gun and a Hilter sign.

Frances, I didn’t expect you to get it, so I’ll explain it. Although, at the end of your message you fall victim to the same flawed rationale you complain about.

janine states in effect, that conservatives can’t reach a conclusion without getting their instructions from Beck, Limbaugh, etc., the same old repetitive stuff.

You on the other hand query, do I think anyone with a liberal viewpoint can not reach such a conclusion naturally.

So you have a liberal, janine, guilty of exactly what you accuse a conservative, me, of.

This happens all too frequently, and not just here. So my question to you, “What’s the difference?”

Then you fall victim to the same flawed mindset you try to pin on me, with your words, “I’m not the one siding with the people who downloaded their talking points from a Freedom Works affiliate before getting bussed down to the town hall meetings toting a gun and a Hilter sign.”

For the record, I have only visited a Freedom Works site once and not long enough to read much of anything. I did not attend any of the “Tea Parties” or “Town Hall” meetings, quite frankly because I fear you people are dangerous. I don’t want to unexpectedly appear on one of your lists in the future. I have a gun, actually several of them but do not “tote” them anywhere. They are for my protection in my home. And I’ve never carried a “Hitler” sign in my life. (Although I seem to recall having drawn a swastika when I was much younger but I cannot remember why.)

As much as you people may think otherwise, my opinions are mine and mine alone. I assimilate such information as I may and reach my own conclusions, however right or wrong they may be. I expect no one else to take blame for my thoughts.

Janine – While it’s true that people reach conclusions based on information received, that information is filtered through pre-existing beliefs. The differences between conservatives and liberals are based on the different foundational beliefs. A conservative will look stupid to you because, even though you both have the same information, you reach different conclusions based on the different beliefs you hold.

For example, someone who thinks governments help people, back ideas that create more of it. If someone thinks governments restrict peoples free will, they’ll oppose ideas that create more of it.

What constitutes compassion? What constitutes justice? We each have our beliefs that influence our conclusions. If you define your beliefs for all to see, it may help others understand how you’ve reached your conclusions.

Tennessean, I chose my words carefully when I said “siding with”. I didn’t say you were one of those people. No need to go on and on and on and on about your gun ownership and why you own them. See, I’m not against guns per se. I’m against freaks of nature owning stockpiles of them to defend themselves against the black helicoptors. So odds are I have no problem with you owning a gun.

Maybe I’m getting bad habits from you, lumping all conservatives into one happy-go-lucky pile of fringies? I guess after Thursday, we can toss Boehner and Cantor into the mix since they welcomed those wack-a-doos with open arms. Are they lending credibility to the fringe or is the fringe discrediting the Republican Party? Think about it. Seriously.

janine says, “I do, however, point out when conservative commenters parrot Beck et al…..” You should qualify or preface that statement by saying something to the effect of “when in your opinion”. Then I can agree with you.

Still, I think “you people” have a tendency to “conclude” that when a Conservative has reached some conclusion contrary to your own, you have a hard time accepting they could have done so without the influences you routinely castigate.

Otherwise there is absolutely no reason or basis for you to make the statement, “I do, however, point out when conservative commenters parrot Beck et al…..” Kinda leaves a wide window for your subjective opinion? Eh??

What if I agree with those people because they are right? Or at least, I consider them to be right?

Or even more foreign to most of you, because that’s how I feel and they just articulated it on T.V. or Radio.

@Tennessee

you keep circling the wagons around they same old arguments. Dude, enough already. We’ve been round and round this topic and now you are repeating yourself….

Move on to a different post (and don’t confuse my use of ‘move on’ in this statement to the organization)

@Tennessean

You’re welcome

@Tennessean: Geez, I must be an idiot for not wanting a felon to own a gun. I must be a control freak to not want some nut stockpiling hundreds of weapons down the street. I’ll tell you what, I certainly wouldn’t want to live next to you. Besides, you and the remaining 3 or 4 Republicans left, might start a mini itsy bitsy army. ;-)