Reagan 1961
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In fifty years, it appears that little has changed from the Republican’s playbook when it comes to fighting health care reform In 1961, Ronald Reagan was hired by the American Medical Association to do his part in preventing Medicare from ever seeing the light of day. The suave Hollywood actor put out a recording as part of what was called Operation Coffeecup. See if any of this sounds vaguely familiar.
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Reagan’s words are indistinguishable from the nonsense we’re hearing today at town hall meetings, from Republican politicians and from conservative media. Then, as now, the mot du jour was socialism and the tread which kept the message intact was that of fear.
In the words of Reagan…
“…it’s a short step to all the rest of socialism, to determining his [doctor's] pay and pretty soon your son won’t decide when he’s in school where he will go or what he will do for a living. He will wait for the government to tell him where he will go to work and what he will do.”
Reagan opposed Social Security and Medicare in the 1960s and when they both failed to lead to socialism as he had predicted, when both programs were successful and popular with the people, he denied he had ever opposed either. When Jimmy Carter made his opponent’s previous opposition to Medicare an issue in the 1980 Presidential campaign, Reagan denied having done so and introduced his slimy, “There you go again…” as he smiled and grimaced his way through another lie.
These words from 1961 are the same ones being heard today.
If this program passes, one of these years we will tell our children and our children’s children what it was like in American when men were free.
I imagine that when you don’t have a leg to stand on, when you’re nothing more than a pawn of the health care industry and when the sum total of your moral fiber is equivalent to that of a slug, lies and fear are all you’ve got.
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Thanks Mario. That’s a perfect example of how outcomes can be predicted when sound principles are used as a basis for decision making. Reagan continues to be prophetic.
@Tommy
No problem, Tommy. I’m happy to help. Reagan really was prophetic. BTW, where did Obama tell your son or daughter they have to work?
Just curious.
I don’t have time to research it thoroughly. I don’t know if progress has been made or if the effort has been abandoned. But it is out there and the idea has been floated around.
http://www.connorboyack.com/blog/the-obama-youth-compulsory-service-on-the-horizon
“The Obama Administration will call on Americans to serve in order to meet the nation’s challenges. President-Elect Obama will expand national service programs like AmeriCorps and Peace Corps and will create a new Classroom Corps to help teachers in underserved schools, as well as a new Health Corps, Clean Energy Corps, and Veterans Corps. Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by developing a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school and 100 hours of community service in college every year. Obama will encourage retiring Americans to serve by improving programs available for individuals over age 55, while at the same time promoting youth programs such as Youth Build and Head Start.”
You guys make it impossible to be civil with you. You plop an idiotic statement which has been debunked a 1000 times before and think you’ve made a point. It’s like debating a 3 year old only worse. When you find the time to “research it thoroughly” go for it. Knock yourself out. Here’s some help numb skull. Google “michele bachmann obama internment camps”.
@anteater – What side of the crib did you wake up on?
People make decisions based on facts, and principles that they hold to be true. If your Mommy is driving you to Toys-R-Us, and she’s at a fork in the road, she’ll go either left or right based on her knowledge of where each of the routes will take her. Her knowledge of the best route is her guiding principle.
As you get older, you’ll form guilding principles that will help you navigate life’s many twists and turns. Good luck.
@anteater – You are a particularly distasteful individual. Be that as it may, as I said, the idea has been floated. I don’t know where it is now. I don’t know if this bill has been changed. But to put it in the ridiculing manner it was put, as if it was unthinkable and where in the heck did you come up with such nonsense, is disingenuous and misleading.
http://oneoarinthewater.blogspot.com/2009/03/hr-1388-generations-invigorating.html
Under section 6104 of the bill, entitled “Duties,” in subsection B6, the legislation states that a commission will be set up to investigate, “Whether a workable, fair, and reasonable mandatory service requirement for all able young people could be developed, and how such a requirement could be implemented in a manner that would strengthen the social fabric of the Nation and overcome civic challenges by bringing together people from diverse economic, ethnic, and educational backgrounds.
Section 120 of the bill also discusses the “Youth Engagement Zone Program” and states that “service learning” will be “a mandatory part of the curriculum in all of the secondary schools served by the local educational agency.”
@Larry – Just walk out of dark cave? That story is old news and it’s been debunked. You post it here as if to give credence to “one of these years we will tell our children and our children’s children what it was like in American when men were free.” Time to get your head out of Glenn Beck’s ass.
@Tommy – For a guy who loves to talk about facts, the scarcity of facts coming out of you is quite revealing. You’re a broken record. “Government is too big. Government is too big. Government is too big.” Try answering the question you were asked above. If you believe as you stated that “Reagan was prophetic”, what line of employment was your son forced to go into? Reagan did predict that government would dictate schooling and employment if Medicare passed.
@Larry and Tommy – You make a great team: The Idiot and the Ideologue
Ah, the conservatives arrive at the House of Liberal’s to opine – and something wicked this way comes. My tongue can be sharp so give you both props for those razor sharp idioms! There is a great need for sarcasm font
@Tommy what were the “sound principles” used in the Iran Contra decision that sent more people to jail under Reagan than any other president? Or the sound principles used to give Amnesty to all Illegal Mexicans that were on American soil at that moment; and the sound logic that released thousands and thousands of mentally ill individuals from assisted living to the streets of California when he was Governor? California is still living with those two “Unintended consequences” of the audacity of Big Government and no one can convince me that they have not contributed to the economic disaster of this state (Illegal proliferation has closed down our hospital emergency rooms and our jails are now the “assisted living” of the mentally ill at a mind-boggling increase in expense.
@ Larry “The Obama Administration will call on Americans to serve in order to meet the nation’s challenges….” Where have we heard THAT before? Oh “Ask not what the country can do for you, but what you…” something like that.
OMG, “require”? Well yeah, when I join a Corp I imagine I would be “required” to take some responsibility for my decision by fulfilling any “requirements” asked of me.
BTW, did you know that there are a vast # of senior’s who have gotten together and formed volunteer groups offering their immeasurable life long experiences and knowledge (for free) to Companies and individuals – Groups of teachers who tutor for free, Accountants who assist new businesses etc, etc. They are always seeking new retirees to join.
And 2 more thgs: 1. The Liberals did not fill the airwaves and emails with vile “reminders” of Reagan’s “Moments of Failure” on the pageant of his body across country. And 2 you said Reagan was Prophetic – No that was Nancy.
You both have a very transparent minds – which in no way implies clear thinking.
@anteater – So, you’re ok with government as big as it is? Are you ok with government getting bigger? I’m not, on either account. I’ve been pounding that drum for 30 years, probably twice as long as you’ve been alive. Those who think government is the answer, are those that I oppose.
It’s easy to get caught in the trap of voting for free stuff offered by the government. If your mommy were dying @anteater, and the government said “we can fix her, we just need you to approve of us taking the money from someone else”, you would probably not flitch at the offer. Your world revolves around your mommy, and around what’s best for you. You don’t think beyond that little world, to how it’s affecting everyone else. It’s all about “what’s in it for me”.
I’m not that way. I would not burden someone else with my problems. It’s a principle I live by, and it grants you the respect to live by your own principles. By doing so, by granting respect to people’s free will, people naturally help each other. Your way of doing things forces people to live by YOUR principles, which only makes them bitter. It’s what causes the conflicts that you’re witnessing now. If we remove forced compassion (and forced morality) from the scene, we’ll see a more compassionate and moral America.
@Tommy
I feel for you. I am not being cynical here. I can see that you honestly believe the words you write. What you cannot see is that you live in an artificial and delusional world of ideology that will never be. You talk about the Constitution and your interpretation of it as if it’s cast in concrete. You talk of a perfect world where everyone is self-sufficient and you set a standard of self by which you measure everyone else.
It is ironic that you would refer to anyone else in terms of “what’s in it for me” when it is you, Tommmy, who are doing exactly that. The world is not perfect and not everyone will attain the level by which you measure success. You make the mistake of judging all who do not have what you have as being part of a single class of people – the lazy, the shiftless, those looking for government handouts. You live in a simplistic and ideological world where there are but two classes of people: the successful and the bums.
Well, life happens. People lose their jobs. People get ill. People make mistakes. People get hurt. Some lack the intellect of a Tommy Pane. It’s called life and it cannot be found in the pages of Atlas Shrugged.
So look down from whatever Ivory Tower you call home and demean those who are genuinely suffering and less fortunate than yourself. Give ‘em hell and tell the bastards that they lost their job because of their lack of self-respect. Tell ‘em that if they really want the cancer treatments, they’ll find the $100,000 somewhere. You tell ‘em, Tommy.
Oh, and you really shouldn’t use the word compassion when describing yourself…at least not the you you’ve chosen to display on these pages.
@ mario. Well said.
@Mario Wish I could of said it as well as you did.
Mario, ty for putting that pompous little ass in his place!
@Mario –Very well put. Wish I could write like that.
@Tommy, I have what I believe is a legitimate question please.
I am a liberal, fanatic about personal responsibility and privacy I do not want the government in any part or section of my life.
To the question: I’m sure you recall when Bush passed the Do Not Call law that you could sign up for and no Telemarketer could call you under Penalty of large fines.
I went apoplectic when I heard my Rep brother and a Republican friend at work were absolutely ecstatic and signed immediately.
Whoa, wait a minute – you don’t believe in Big Government, Yet you get all upset ‘cause the phone is ringing at dinnertime so you call the White House and ask “Daddy” to fix it? “Daddy make it stop”?
Take care of it your OWN Damn self Brotha! Get your phone unlisted – screen your messages– take some responsibility yourself. You just put thousands and thousands of people out of work and closing millions of new small businesses.
I would have grounded my kids for life if they acted this way.
So please! What is big government?
@anteater – H.R.1388 was signed into law on April21, 2009
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-1388
@Tommy – Right Tommy! I have no idea where you are coming from with this silliness. Why would you prefer people to actually be responsible for their own decisions, whether good or bad? Why would you want to celebrate personal success and achievement? Don’t you know society would be so much better if we just sat around on our butts and waited for the Government to give things to us?
What dignity is there in hard earned success and prosperity? If we just do this the right way, the Government will make us all equals. Better we all be under achieving parasites of society than to actually have people that create and achieve?
Tommy, you just don’t understand. You really need to change your way of thinking. You need to understand that when, “….life happens. People lose their jobs. People get ill. People make mistakes. People get hurt. Some lack the intellect of a Tommy Pane. It’s called life and it cannot be found in the pages of Atlas Shrugged.” we really don’t need the success, resources, money and achievement the people like you have created in order to help those unfortunates.
We’ll just go to the Government Money and Services tree and pick a basket of whatever is needed.
Bravo Mario!! Maybe we can get you a role in the movie. Wesley Mooch….maybe. Orren Boyle?? Nah. I see you more as a James Taggart type.
Larry, can you also answer the question I asked of Tommy? about the government in our lives and “helping us out”?
You have no idea how many people I help because of the means that I have created for myself, @Mario. I also don’t have a clue as to how many more people I could help if 50% of my income were not taken from me by big government people who think that I’m not giving enough.
I’ve asked that people on this blog post the principles by which they live. So far, you’re the only one who has. You say that I “talk about the Constitution and your interpretation of it as if it’s cast in concrete.”. I do, because it is. It’s a contract that served to form the foundation of a great new country. By mocking it, you show that you would allow it to be diluted. By agreeing with you, everyone else here feels the same way. That’s where I part ways with you.
I’m done trying to have “conversations” with you guys. I’ve given it two months. It’s been a waste of time.
Hey Tommy. You go do whatever you’ve got to do. But your last words will not go unchallenged. Nowhere have I “mocked” the constitution. By dismissing all I’ve written by that baseless statement is below your standards of fair play.
I would think that in two months you might have learned something on how the other half think…and why they do, whether you agree or not.
Take care and have a good life in that Ivory Tower of yours. ;)
I’ve learned that there is no middle ground as I once thought. The viewpoints of the left are too dangerous to our country.
@Dahl – No problem. I disagree with the “Do Not Call” Laws. Telemarketers have to make a living also. I don’t need nor want the Government monitoring my phone calls for me.
I have an unlisted number. If I receive a call from Telemarketers, I am polite and tell them I do not need their services and please do not call again. I have the capability through my phone service to block calls, screen calls, automatically block calls from unidentified sources, and a few other services I don’t have enough sense to figure out how to use.
Although I would say that’s an unfair comparison. Annoying phone calls aren’t quite the same as having Government meddling with my health and health care.
@Tommy – You shouldn’t let Mario get under your skin. Just practice Jesus’ philosophy. Forgive them. For they know not what they do.
You’re giving them what they want. They want silence and acquiescence any way they can get it. When they can bully you into silence, they win.
This is how they operate. Look at these exchanges. Not a one of them has even TRIED to make a point or substantiate a thought. All they have done is ridicule and insult.
Look at the way they conduct themselves. Based on their comments here, they are losers. They’ve always been losers. They will always be losers. Why give them a win by default?
@Larry – Mario will not change no matter what insights you or I give him. The same is true for everyone else who agrees with him. This blog is an echo chamber. By giving it our attention, we give it credence. It’s time to pull the plug and let them pat themselves on their backs.
Me? As a result of this experience, I’m shifting my attention to a more active role in stopping their movement. Education of indoctrinated leftists is a lost cause. It’s time to start with the children. I’ll be putting my resources into bringing civic and economics education to the public schools.
@Larry, thx. I did not mean to imply a comparison of telemarketing to HealthCare. I am decrying the wanting of Government to stay out of our business on the one hand then turning around and using the government when we are too lazy to take care of things ourselves. It confuses government as to what we really want the role of government to be. Stay out or baby sit.
Another one: Term limits (no not off the subject) is a LAZY, apathetic mans way of voting. “Who cares he’ll be out in 4”. You want ‘him out? Work to VOTE him out. Plus I don’t want other states deciding what my state will do (if N Carolina wants Strom Thurman forever – that was there call)
One other example of government interference (or helping) that is my personal pet peeve, since I lived through it is Prayer in school – THAT the ultimate in lazy parenting. I was in school when prayer in school was mandatory – kids can be real mean about religion on the playground and at lunch – I recall many a food fight of Christian kids screaming Christ killer to the Jewish kids and both ganging up on the little Muslim girl. Parents were at schools complaining all the time.. I was so glad it was pulled before my kids had to go because I taught them (partly because of Prayer in School) that their religion was as private as their bowel movements and other religions must be respected.
RE your last post: if you are honest you will have to admit that in Most of our posts we indeed do try to make a point or substantiate our thinking so we can figure out how our brain wiring is different and Not ALL we have done is ridicule and insult. And you know it. And so does Tommy – You both done your share!
Come-on @Tommy; Larry, if you leave every time your frustrated or can’t get (“those idiots”) to come over to your way of thinking; then maybe politics isn’t for you ‘cause look around – find a solution rather than spit in the wind and wonder why your face is all wet..Lets all get out our tin foil hats and show honest facts and consequences. Maybe we can find out what the common ground is – or maybe it never was and should not be!
But if all you want is to come here to fight a war of wits, then bro, you come unarmed :->
Thoughts, Ideas, issues, complaints?
One quick post because I have other things going on. Tommy, you say you don’t want government in our lives interfering. Yet I see you saying that you are turning your attention to the children by…..wait for it….altering the education of children in …..public schools!!!! Yes!!! those government run places where the government gets to decide how our children think! And you want to join them!!! So you can help the government decide how our children will think!!! Wow!!!! Hypocrite!!!!! For one who doesn’t want the government involved in your life! You are certainly ready to join them in altering children’s minds!! The ultimate in government intervention!!! Fool!!! Caught you!!!
@Melody – I won’t call you a fool. But the one that got “caught” here is you. Public schools are State and Local Government Controlled enterprises. EXACTLY what Tommy advocates and as the Constitution intended. In almost every state that I am aware of, the control breaks down to at least a county basis, and sometimes, there are city systems within the county with different rules, regulations and standards.
You really should apologize to Tommy. I don’t think I have ever read a word of disrespect aimed at you from him.
@The Rest Of You “Wesley Mooches” (You too Jim) – An estimated 48.1% of Americans have zero or negative tax liability. That means the Utopian Vision of the United States that most of you support, promote and wish for, is supported by the remaining 51.9% of the population, the “Tommys” of the Country. These people are the motors that drive our country. Make no mistake about it.
But yet, you people vilify and ridicule them. Isn’t that some degree of madness? Without them, your “Utopia” fails. Do you have differences Politically? Philosophically? Of course you do. That difference is what drives the evil “Tommys” of the world to struggle, achieve and accomplish while the “Mooches” sit back, criticize, laugh and ridicule.
How many of you have ever owned your own business? Have any of you ever had employees for whose welfare you were responsible? Have any of you ever had to go to bed at night, knowing you could depend on nothing but your own wit and effort to guarantee you would get a check at the end of the week?? Judging from your posts, I would say not many, if any at all.
No! All you Wesleys! (You too Jim.) You shouldn’t be ridiculing and insulting people like Tommy. You should be thanking them. It’s hard enough in this country on owners and operators of Small Businesses. They could use a little gratitude. Believe me, there are more than enough “natural predators” for them to face without having to face the faux indignation of those who benefit the most from their efforts.
I’ll leave you with something I ran across on another site. It is very timely and appropriate with this crowd. And the “Tommys” of this world are finding themselves asking this question of themselves more and more:
“The question I have is this: Who is stimulating the economy? Me, the guy who has provided 14 people good paying jobs and serves over 2,200,000 people per year with a flourishing business? Or, the single mother sitting at home pregnant with her fourth child waiting for her next welfare check? Obviously, government feels the latter is the economic stimulus of this country.
Time for me to close up shop and move out of this country.”
And when they all move, who will be left to fuel the motor?
“How many of you have ever owned your own business?…” I have @Larry. I have struggled, achieved and accomplished. But never saw those outside my “circle” as “… “Mooches” sitting back, criticizing, laughing and ridiculing”
I was driving in a car with a Pentecostal Minister back east in farm land. We passed a man sitting on the side of the road looking dirty and exhausted – the minister said: “look at that laziness….” No one in the car responded to her, but I thought; maybe he just sat down from hours of walking. She has no knowledge of this guy ‘how can she judge him?’
You said: “You shouldn’t be ridiculing and insulting people like Tommy…” Well, maybe you and Tommy shouldn’t be doing the same.
@Dahl – Wesley Mouch – “A failure in the private sector, Mouch turns to politics. A faceless nobody who constantly pleads for “wider powers,” he is regarded as “safe”—and is promoted, step-by-step, as a compromise candidate, until he becomes the nation’s economic dictator.”
Simply drawing comparisons. Not “mooch” in the literal sense.
I disagree re: Tommy. If you look back over the posts, I think you’ll find both he and I have responded for the most part in a measured manner, unless responding in kind. But as un-P.C. as it may seem, Yes. I think people that contribute little or nothing should be a little more restrained in insulting people that contribute far more than their “share”.
@Larry Whoa, “….people that contribute little or nothing should be a little more RESTRAINED in insulting people that contribute far more than their ‘share’.” OMG Your equating Free Speech with Politically Correctness? BTW who measures their share? You?
My bank fired a teller who was down right rude to a slovenly homeless “looking” man – turned out he was a multi-Billionaire and took every penny of his portfolio out of the bank.
Best not judge a man by what he seems to be – he might be able to buy you out!
@Dahl – You’re taking it to Idealistic, Liberal extremes. I’m judging people by the content of their posts here. Just as you and the rest judge Tommy and I by our posts.
I’m simply saying if your contributions are minimal, perhaps you should temper your INSULTS (not general free speech) of people who contribute a much greater share to the common good.
(See my comments on S.S. Contributions.)
@Larry then perhaps we both are speaking idealistically.
Did not find your S.S Contributions. So I ask again How are you judging those that “contribute little or nothing” and should “…be restrained And those that contribute far more than their “share”..” and be less restrained?
@Dahl – “And those that contribute far more than their “share”..” and be less restrained?”
I did not say that or anything remotely like that.
My comments concerning Social Security Contributions are on the post “On Preexisting Conditions”.
I only speak idealistically when I wistfully wish for respect from Liberals for opposing positions. ;-) ;-)
@Larry LOL Your reply to Nathalie should be in every employee’s cubicle in America “…We need nothing from you! YOU need us. Unless you own your own business, you make virtually ZERO contribution” HA
On the Capital level if Tommy is paying any taxes at all he has one lousy Tax Attorney. That is one of the ‘perks’ of success. You can pay millions in taxes SS et al. but if you can’t recoup through write off and customer fees etc then. he should get a better business plan or Wall Street Tax Attorney.
On the Business/human Level You can be the CEO up on the 38th floor. But the CEO does not live in a vacuum if he has no valued foundation to move his core product he collapses under his own weight.
There are more than 65,000 companies with HQ’s ‘out of the country to avoid paying United States Taxes.(Fine citizens they are) while their employee pays all his taxes through the nose with no benefit or ‘perks’
@Dahl – It’s just really not worth the effort. You seem to have a mental block on comprehension.
One point though. No tax attorney can get you out of S.S. Nothing can. You pay it no matter what.
Okay….I shouldn’t bother but I’ll take one shot at it. I wasn’t referring to “employees”. I was referring to Liberals who vilify people like Tommy who own their own businesses whose contributions are significant. You’d be surprised just how much any reasonably intelligent or successful businessman treasures his employees
Nathalie had said, ““A measure of a person’s worth is the way they treat those less fortunate than themselves. Conservatives have shown they have no understanding of this concept.” I was just making the point that perhaps Conservatives not only understand, but do more for those “less fortunate” than all the hand wringing Nathalie will ever do might accomplish.
@Larry you wrote: “One point though. No tax attorney can get you out of S.S. Nothing can. You pay it no matter what” THIS is what I actually wrote (see above): YOU CAN PAY MILLIONS IN TAXES AND SS…BUT if you can’t recoup through write off and customer fees etc then. he should get a better business plan or Wall Street Tax Attorney. So, Wanna talk comprehension and retention?
I’ve been trying to ask legitimate questions of you; your answers are either your “not worth the effort” or belittling (to all liberals) If we challenge anything you say – you come back with “that’s not what I meant” or well you’re a Liberal so answer with 12th grade snide remarks,
It is fascinating to watch a Conservative be at once arrogant and a victim at the same time. A Bill O’Reilly and Rush Limbaugh mantra. I watch the conservative pundits daily; and read their blogs; I want to see why the difference in our synapse and our inability to communicate. Sometimes its hard to listen to it, but I am not going to bury my head. Tommy said “@Larry – Mario will not change no matter what insights you or I give him…” Politics is Not a Religion that you need to proselytize others to convert to. We don’t want to convert you or Tommy to Liberalism and we don’t want to become a conservative but if we cannot run this country together with all values represented – then we are becoming a 3rd world country.
Dahl – Come on. I’m trying to be patient. You said, “On the Capital level if Tommy is paying any taxes at all he has one lousy Tax Attorney.” I simply clarified you pay S.S. “Taxes” no matter what.
I’ve been trying to GIVE you legitimate answers. But when you go off on some errant tangent claiming I belittle employees, yes, I have to wonder if it’s worth the effort. Sorry if you find that offensive. You just seem too ready to think the worst.
You say, “you come back with “that’s not what I meant” Well….if it’s NOT what I meant and you misinterpret my intention (I will assume because that is what you WANT to believe about me) what should I do?
I just disagree with you that I have tried to belittle you or anyone else. I think you need to look closer at the way you react and interpret what I say. Perhaps you have some pre-conceived notions?
You began your response with the belittling statement, “Your reply to Nathalie should be in every employee’s cubicle in America” which indicated to me you did not understand or just didn’t really read what I said. How do you expect me to respond?