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___
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“For those who care, and I understand if you don’t: Today I quit being a Christian. I’m out. I remain committed to Christ as always but not to being ‘Christian’ or to being part of Christianity. It’s simply impossible for me to ‘belong’ to this quarrelsome, hostile, disputatious, and deservedly infamous group. For ten years, I’ve tried. I’ve failed. I’m an outsider. My conscience will allow nothing else.”
“In the name of Christ, I refuse to be anti-gay. I refuse to be anti-feminist. I refuse to be anti-artificial birth control. I refuse to be anti-Democrat. I refuse to be anti-secular humanism. I refuse to be anti-science. I refuse to be anti-life.”
I’m sure Rice is not alone in thinking that the belief structure set out by organized religion runs counter to the reality we call life. Here is a well-meaning but nonetheless condescending response by Pastor Mark Driscoll.
We should also pray for her. My guess is that she’s simply struggling with what it means to be a Christian while hurting. She lost her daughter Michele to leukemia in 1972, buried her gay best friend John Preston, who died of AIDS in 1994, and in 2002 she buried her husband of forty-one years, Stan Rice. Her son, bestselling author Christopher Rice, is a gay rights activist whom she loves even while she reads the Bible’s denial of his lifestyle as a God-honoring one. So, let her fellow Christians pray, love, and wait for Jesus to keep working on her as he is on us, thanking him that at least our struggles are not as publicly scrutinized as hers.
___
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I concur wholeheartedly with Anne Rice. I dropped out of organized religion (Episcopal) eight years ago in February for those very reasons. Today I’m probably more spiritual than I’ve ever been. Pastor Mark Driscoll’s take on Rice’s stance is just typical of what we deplore in Christianity.
Out of curiosity, how does Pastor Mark Driscoll account for his own dislikes? Going on about Anne’s losses does not make his little speech sound any better. Heaping pity on her doesn’t cut it
The church is the first to pop up and assist in denying people their rights as Americans and the very nature of humans.
The church operates like a dictatorship at best. You are threatened with eternal damnation for being true to yourself.
I dropped out of religion itself, deciding its not a crutch I need.
16“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,f that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.g 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.” – John 3
20Woe to those who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter. – Isaiah 8
12Those who want to make a good
impression outwardly are trying to
compel you to be circumcised. The only
reason they do this is to avoid being
persecuted for the cross of Christ. – Gal. 6
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. – Romans 1
WAKE UP AND STOP LYING TO YOURSELVES!!! CUT THE GUILT-BY-ASSOCIATION NONSENSE, TOO, JUST BECAUSE YOU FIND A FEW CONDEMNING CHRISTIANS OUT THERE…THE MESSAGE IS BALANCED…GOD LOVES, BUT HE IS HOLY AND IS NOT MOCKED…THE NEW WOLD ORDER-WHICH IS ABOUT TO TAKE OVER THIS WORLD- HAS DECEIVED YOU SINCE THEY ARE THE ONES WHO GAVE YOU HOMOSEXUALITY, VICE, IMMORALITY, DRUGS, VACCINES, BIRTH CONTROL, YOUR REBELLIOUS ATTITUDE, ETC….THEY GAVE YOU ALL OF THIS TO DESTROY YOU!!!
FACT: DID YOU KNOW THAT MARGRET SANGER, FOUNDER OF PLANNED PARENTHOOD, WAS PEROSNAL FRIENDS WITH HITLER, AND THAT HIRLER USED HER BIRTH CONTROL METHODS TO KILL OFF HS OWN PEOPLE???
ARE YOU COMPLIANT WITH SATAN AND HIS NEW WORLD ORDER???
Annie Rice remains committed to Christ. That is what matters to Christ. It is many Christians that have forgotten the message of love, healing, faith, hope, that comes from his teachings. It is Christ that teaches us tolerance.
Christianity is a faith, not a choke hold. I would say Annie Rice does not need the prayers of intolerant Christians, but the other way around.
John, I thought you were going to let God’s words speak for you. You used scriptures to make a point of your own anger and hatred. Instilling fear as a weapon for your own selfishness. That is not the way of Christ.
The medieval superstitious Hunchbacks of Ignorance that call themselves “Christian” are the biggest group of fuckweasels in world history.
Rice is right, for any reason–any reason at all.
So is Hitchens, Twain, et al.
Religion for the weak minded? Religion as a crutch? Spare me the tired old hate on all things religious. It’s just as old, as the foolish using religion as a weapon for fear and hate. Feeling inferior to others that profess a change in them through faith, is no better.
Janet, with all due respect, I disagree.
You stated, “It’s just as old, as the foolish using religion as a weapon for fear and hate.”
That is a false moral equivalence, something I see daily emanating from the far right, and reject out of hand. (I know from your previous posts that you are not one of those).
This is a difference in radical kind, not a difference in degree.
That is to say, one side is right, and one side is wrong. They cannot both be right, nor both wrong, nor meet in the middle.
Civilly, we can extend the olive branch to each side in a “live and let live” modus vivendi. But do not be deceieved: one of those sides is wrong, dead wrong.
Choose wisely.
Denny, Choose wisely? Why do I have to choose sides with anyone? You misunderstand my point. I am who I am. I have thoughts, make choices, do and say things that come from my experiences in MY life. I am not speaking for anyone but myself here. It is others that choose to label all persons of faith in a higher being because of what they see in people of faith as a lack of intolerance for certain others. I’m not in the box with anyone else, nor is anyone else in the box with me. I say I have faith in God, and I am put in the box of all weak minded people. That is a judgment, and one apparently not allowed for us that have faith. I think I just pointed out that the religious are not always the ones who have no tolerance for what they don’t share in. So where does one reach out and change that? We all live on this planet. Whatever our differences may be, we are put here and deserve to be here. I’m not the perfect person of faith. It is a journey, a journey of seeking knowledge and wisdom, learning to live my life to it’s fullest, learning to know right from wrong, a place of spirit and love, and growing. Yet, others want to say all religious are fools, weak minded. Where do I go from there? What does that mean? I’m weak minded therefor I don’t matter? So now what? Do you understand what I am saying, Denny?
Janet, there are people who do not need religion and can do it without hate. I have no hate for anything which seems not to be the case with you and John. To me religion is a crutch and little more. Were you to really dig in to the origins of the intolerant religion you seem to follow, you might not need it either.
In any case, you seem to prove that you and john are close to being in the same class. I feel no inferiority at not being religious, nor do I feel superior. I just dont need it.
Well, guess you can’t answer that when you already said it loud and clear that if one is religious then that religious one must hate. I learned long ago, that people can agree to disagree and still admire, and respect each other despite or because of our different views, Shivabeach. I don’t know you to judge you, but you made a judgment by twisting my comments to be something they are not. I have my heart, and mind open to all people. Matters not to me race, gender, faith, what the heck ever.
I’m glad to hear about Anne’s decision.I think it’s valid to remain a Christian while leaving it’s organized Church behind.Spirituality is by nature a deeply personal journey and I think should be approached as such.In addition it need not be seen as any kind of a “crutch” if one is not using it that way.I am not a Christian but do as a musician feel a deep connection with spiritual energy or perhaps my “Muse”.
Though not yet having fully arrived, Ms. Rice is heading in the right direction toward the realization that reason, common sense i.e. APPLIED intelligence aka SCIENCE is also not compatible with the belief (in increasing order of absurdity):
1. That a man born of a virgin (parthenogenesis); 2. as the human incarnation of a god (this is the only real god now, all the others that came before or after are fake, I promise); 3. comes back to life and out of his tomb after being tortured to death to hang out with his friends (yes folks, the original zombie movie); 4. and ascends into heaven without the aid of technology (compare to all the gizmos Scotty needed); 5. to meet up with his maker named “Father” who is actually himself (did I say increasing order of absurdity?); 6. in order to provide, for everybody dead or alive who bought the story, (e.g. members of the 700 club) “salvation” from “sin” -the sin that he, in spite of his omnipotence and infallibility, (he created everything “and saw that it was good”, remember?) created in the first place.
I didn’t care when Anne rice suddenly went form Pagan to Christian, and I don’t care about her current move. The woman is a complete and utter whackjob of the worst sort.
And it has nothing to do with her writing, although she does let the insanity of her home life bleed into the books (Sleeping Beauty series)
Lies about Margaret Sanger above…. She was not a friend of Hitler. Why is it the so called “Right wing Xtians” lie so much?????
From Wikipedia
Taking sharp issue in plain words with certain other[22] eugenicists, however, Margaret Sanger completely rejected the idea of gassing the unfit. ‘Nor do we believe,’ wrote Sanger in Pivot of Civilization, ‘that the community could or should send to the lethal chamber the defective progeny resulting from irresponsible and unintelligent breeding.’[23][24]
Sanger’s views thus broke from those proposing Nazi eugenics—an aggressive, and lethal, program. She wrote in a 1933 letter:
“All the news from Germany is sad & horrible, and to me more dangerous than any other war going on any where because it has so many good people who applaud the atrocities & claim its right. The sudden antagonism in Germany against the Jews & the vitriolic hatred of them is spreading underground here & is far more dangerous than the aggressive policy of the Japanese in Manchuria..”[25]
Sanger believed the responsibility for birth control should remain in the hands of able-minded individual parents rather than the state, and that self-determining motherhood was the only unshakable foundation for racial betterment; she wrote:
“The campaign for birth control is not merely of eugenic value, but is practically identical with the final aims of eugenics…. We are convinced that racial regeneration, like individual regeneration, must come ‘from within.’ That is, it must be autonomous, self-directive, and not imposed from without.”[26]
We maintain that a woman possessing an adequate knowledge of her reproductive functions is the best judge of the time and conditions under which her child should be brought into the world. We further maintain that it is her right, regardless of all other considerations, to determine whether she shall bear children or not, and how many children she shall bear if she chooses to become a mother… Only upon a free, self-determining motherhood can rest any unshakable structure of racial betterment.[27]
Janet, that would be thanks to the founding fathers whose legendary intelligence also had them balk at swallowing the christian party line:
J. Adams whose beliefs excluded the divinity of J. Christ,
B. Franklin who rejected belief in salvation, hell, and J. Christ’s divinity,
G. Washington a Deist and Freemason,
T. Jefferson who rejected the virgin birth of J. Christ, angels, prophecy, miracles, the Trinity™ Pat.Pend., the divinity of J. Christ and J. Christ’s resurrection and even created a version of the bible stripping out all of the above, what Mr. Jefferson deemed “nonsense”.
That would not be thanks to your biblical god who would have already arranged for my smiting.
Q.E. Ah well, ya know, I was just trying to make a funny. People are still trying to convert me. Either to be a right wing nutter, or trying to convert me away from what I am.
I keep saying I don’t believe in a theocratic nation. I’m christian, yes I am, but I’m also democrat. I never believed per historical evidence that this is a nation founded on christian principals. I’m not on the right wing side. Never was, never will be. My faith beliefs are my personal business but people so love to make it an issue because so many on the right use faith as a weapon for the idea of righteousness for everyone, forgetting this is a free nation for ALL people. We all get to choose whatever we want to think, to believe, to stand up for, or to just be a couch potato. If I want to believe in a God you think is nothing, what is that to anyone else, when I’m not trying to convert anyone? It sure is happening towards me the other way around. I don’t know how to smite anyone, and have never tried. I’d rather just give a hug and a noogi and be on my way.
J – It all comes down to whether you would rather choose to think “whatever you want to think, to believe” e.g. cling to childhood indoctrinations which have ossified into adulthood unexamined (and give you comfort) or whether you are truly interested in learning (what you termed as “seeking knowledge” in your earlier post) what is true (if it has been so established by adequate evidence), most likely to be true (if not all the evidence is in yet) or more likely to be true (if evidence is completely absent).
If you were to bring your child to the doctor to diagnose a serious illness would you rather she base her diagnoses on “whatever she wants to think, whatever she wants to believe” including but not limited to witchcraft, astrology etc. (it’s her right after all) or base it on the best possible evidence e.g. tests, latest diagnostic methods, the most up to date science?
If you are being prosecuted for a crime you did not commit, would you rather the jury base their verdict on “whatever they want to think, whatever they want to believe” or on the evidence and the merits of the case?
What I would respectfully ask you to consider is the value of upgrading this culture’s tired platitude of “you’re entitled to your opinion, your own belief” to “you’re as entitled to your opinion, your own belief as you are obligated to provide reliable and verifiable evidence to support that opinion or belief.”
It’s the standard in Law, Medicine, and all other sciences where life-altering (terminating -in some instances) decisions are made. It’s the cornerstone of human progress. Why settle for a lesser one in any other area of life?
QE, a beautifully crafted response–one I am forced to spirit away for my own use. Thank you for this fine piece of writing.
In a juvenile attempt to run up the score, so to speak, I am reminded by this entire subject that opinions are to be based on fact, not be a substitute for it. As well, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but no one is entitled to their own set of facts. Too often, what passes for religious or spritual belief is nothing other then running away from facts that disprove a vested narrative, or, worse yet, intellectual laziness.
In both cases, handily disguised as “opinion”.
You are right. An unexamined life…..
You’re entitled to whatever opinion you want, as long as it doesn’t prevent someone from having whatever opinion they want. Facts don’t have to enter into personal opinions. I thought that would have been obvious watching the debates between the left and the right.
You, my friend, ARE IN DENIAL. WAKE UP. Did you read what I said??? But aren’t we sooooo selective in our beliefs.
I had 2 dear friends, WHO WERE HOMOSEXUAL, DIE in the month of March 2007, both of whom I warned to REPENT-beforehand. Both were named Daniel, which in Hebrew means “God is my judge.” Now…I WARN YOU BECAUSE I LOVE YOU. REPENT and stop incurring upon yourself the wrath of God!!!
Repent for mischaracterizing God and HIs attributes. WE ARE ALL SINNERS…God understands, but He DOES NOT except it when we roll over and…GIVE IN. God does not tolerate our UNBELIEF, but He does understand that we are weak and frail. I have to acknowledge and repent EVERY DAY for my sins, BUT I WILL NOT BOW MY KNEE TO BA’AL. I did let God’s word speak for itself, so what point of Romans 1 did you not understand.
Q.E.
I have been around the mountain over and over again on why I believe. I find it doesn’t do me any good to try and argue, when there are those that will not understand, for whatever reason. So if I give you an answer you don’t like, as this is my opinion, this is my view, it’s more then that, of course. I have reasons, they will not likely be any more ecceptable to you, either. I am intelligent enough to think on my own, contrary to what so many would like to think.
I concur wholeheartedly with Anne Rice. I dropped out of organized religion (Episcopal) eight years ago in February for those very reasons. Today I’m probably more spiritual than I’ve ever been. Pastor Mark Driscoll’s take on Rice’s stance is just typical of what we deplore in Christianity.
Out of curiosity, how does Pastor Mark Driscoll account for his own dislikes? Going on about Anne’s losses does not make his little speech sound any better. Heaping pity on her doesn’t cut it
The church is the first to pop up and assist in denying people their rights as Americans and the very nature of humans.
The church operates like a dictatorship at best. You are threatened with eternal damnation for being true to yourself.
I dropped out of religion itself, deciding its not a crutch I need.
I will let God’s word speak for itself:
16“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,f that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.g 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.” – John 3
20Woe to those who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter. – Isaiah 8
12Those who want to make a good
impression outwardly are trying to
compel you to be circumcised. The only
reason they do this is to avoid being
persecuted for the cross of Christ. – Gal. 6
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. – Romans 1
WAKE UP AND STOP LYING TO YOURSELVES!!! CUT THE GUILT-BY-ASSOCIATION NONSENSE, TOO, JUST BECAUSE YOU FIND A FEW CONDEMNING CHRISTIANS OUT THERE…THE MESSAGE IS BALANCED…GOD LOVES, BUT HE IS HOLY AND IS NOT MOCKED…THE NEW WOLD ORDER-WHICH IS ABOUT TO TAKE OVER THIS WORLD- HAS DECEIVED YOU SINCE THEY ARE THE ONES WHO GAVE YOU HOMOSEXUALITY, VICE, IMMORALITY, DRUGS, VACCINES, BIRTH CONTROL, YOUR REBELLIOUS ATTITUDE, ETC….THEY GAVE YOU ALL OF THIS TO DESTROY YOU!!!
FACT: DID YOU KNOW THAT MARGRET SANGER, FOUNDER OF PLANNED PARENTHOOD, WAS PEROSNAL FRIENDS WITH HITLER, AND THAT HIRLER USED HER BIRTH CONTROL METHODS TO KILL OFF HS OWN PEOPLE???
ARE YOU COMPLIANT WITH SATAN AND HIS NEW WORLD ORDER???
Annie Rice remains committed to Christ. That is what matters to Christ. It is many Christians that have forgotten the message of love, healing, faith, hope, that comes from his teachings. It is Christ that teaches us tolerance.
Christianity is a faith, not a choke hold. I would say Annie Rice does not need the prayers of intolerant Christians, but the other way around.
John, I thought you were going to let God’s words speak for you. You used scriptures to make a point of your own anger and hatred. Instilling fear as a weapon for your own selfishness. That is not the way of Christ.
The medieval superstitious Hunchbacks of Ignorance that call themselves “Christian” are the biggest group of fuckweasels in world history.
Rice is right, for any reason–any reason at all.
So is Hitchens, Twain, et al.
Jesse Ventura said it best, Religion is for weak minded people.
Religion for the weak minded? Religion as a crutch? Spare me the tired old hate on all things religious. It’s just as old, as the foolish using religion as a weapon for fear and hate. Feeling inferior to others that profess a change in them through faith, is no better.
We dont know where we came from
We dont know where we are
And we dont know where were going
Anybody who says they know are fools.
Janet, with all due respect, I disagree.
You stated, “It’s just as old, as the foolish using religion as a weapon for fear and hate.”
That is a false moral equivalence, something I see daily emanating from the far right, and reject out of hand. (I know from your previous posts that you are not one of those).
This is a difference in radical kind, not a difference in degree.
That is to say, one side is right, and one side is wrong. They cannot both be right, nor both wrong, nor meet in the middle.
Civilly, we can extend the olive branch to each side in a “live and let live” modus vivendi. But do not be deceieved: one of those sides is wrong, dead wrong.
Choose wisely.
Denny, Choose wisely? Why do I have to choose sides with anyone? You misunderstand my point. I am who I am. I have thoughts, make choices, do and say things that come from my experiences in MY life. I am not speaking for anyone but myself here. It is others that choose to label all persons of faith in a higher being because of what they see in people of faith as a lack of intolerance for certain others. I’m not in the box with anyone else, nor is anyone else in the box with me. I say I have faith in God, and I am put in the box of all weak minded people. That is a judgment, and one apparently not allowed for us that have faith. I think I just pointed out that the religious are not always the ones who have no tolerance for what they don’t share in. So where does one reach out and change that? We all live on this planet. Whatever our differences may be, we are put here and deserve to be here. I’m not the perfect person of faith. It is a journey, a journey of seeking knowledge and wisdom, learning to live my life to it’s fullest, learning to know right from wrong, a place of spirit and love, and growing. Yet, others want to say all religious are fools, weak minded. Where do I go from there? What does that mean? I’m weak minded therefor I don’t matter? So now what? Do you understand what I am saying, Denny?
Janet, there are people who do not need religion and can do it without hate. I have no hate for anything which seems not to be the case with you and John. To me religion is a crutch and little more. Were you to really dig in to the origins of the intolerant religion you seem to follow, you might not need it either.
In any case, you seem to prove that you and john are close to being in the same class. I feel no inferiority at not being religious, nor do I feel superior. I just dont need it.
Shivabeach, please, do point where I have expressed hate.
http://www.politicususa.com/en/palin-hate-speech
Glad to see this.
Well, guess you can’t answer that when you already said it loud and clear that if one is religious then that religious one must hate. I learned long ago, that people can agree to disagree and still admire, and respect each other despite or because of our different views, Shivabeach. I don’t know you to judge you, but you made a judgment by twisting my comments to be something they are not. I have my heart, and mind open to all people. Matters not to me race, gender, faith, what the heck ever.
This was good, Mario. By Gottalaff on twitter. http://www.thepoliticalcarnival.net/2010/08/video-we-are-a-nation-of-laws-not-a-nation-of-emotions/
I’m glad to hear about Anne’s decision.I think it’s valid to remain a Christian while leaving it’s organized Church behind.Spirituality is by nature a deeply personal journey and I think should be approached as such.In addition it need not be seen as any kind of a “crutch” if one is not using it that way.I am not a Christian but do as a musician feel a deep connection with spiritual energy or perhaps my “Muse”.
Though not yet having fully arrived, Ms. Rice is heading in the right direction toward the realization that reason, common sense i.e. APPLIED intelligence aka SCIENCE is also not compatible with the belief (in increasing order of absurdity):
1. That a man born of a virgin (parthenogenesis); 2. as the human incarnation of a god (this is the only real god now, all the others that came before or after are fake, I promise); 3. comes back to life and out of his tomb after being tortured to death to hang out with his friends (yes folks, the original zombie movie); 4. and ascends into heaven without the aid of technology (compare to all the gizmos Scotty needed); 5. to meet up with his maker named “Father” who is actually himself (did I say increasing order of absurdity?); 6. in order to provide, for everybody dead or alive who bought the story, (e.g. members of the 700 club) “salvation” from “sin” -the sin that he, in spite of his omnipotence and infallibility, (he created everything “and saw that it was good”, remember?) created in the first place.
Q.E. Demonstrandum, thank God, and our Constitution you have the right to say any nutty thing you want to.
=)
I didn’t care when Anne rice suddenly went form Pagan to Christian, and I don’t care about her current move. The woman is a complete and utter whackjob of the worst sort.
And it has nothing to do with her writing, although she does let the insanity of her home life bleed into the books (Sleeping Beauty series)
Lies about Margaret Sanger above…. She was not a friend of Hitler. Why is it the so called “Right wing Xtians” lie so much?????
From Wikipedia
Taking sharp issue in plain words with certain other[22] eugenicists, however, Margaret Sanger completely rejected the idea of gassing the unfit. ‘Nor do we believe,’ wrote Sanger in Pivot of Civilization, ‘that the community could or should send to the lethal chamber the defective progeny resulting from irresponsible and unintelligent breeding.’[23][24]
Sanger’s views thus broke from those proposing Nazi eugenics—an aggressive, and lethal, program. She wrote in a 1933 letter:
“All the news from Germany is sad & horrible, and to me more dangerous than any other war going on any where because it has so many good people who applaud the atrocities & claim its right. The sudden antagonism in Germany against the Jews & the vitriolic hatred of them is spreading underground here & is far more dangerous than the aggressive policy of the Japanese in Manchuria..”[25]
Sanger believed the responsibility for birth control should remain in the hands of able-minded individual parents rather than the state, and that self-determining motherhood was the only unshakable foundation for racial betterment; she wrote:
“The campaign for birth control is not merely of eugenic value, but is practically identical with the final aims of eugenics…. We are convinced that racial regeneration, like individual regeneration, must come ‘from within.’ That is, it must be autonomous, self-directive, and not imposed from without.”[26]
We maintain that a woman possessing an adequate knowledge of her reproductive functions is the best judge of the time and conditions under which her child should be brought into the world. We further maintain that it is her right, regardless of all other considerations, to determine whether she shall bear children or not, and how many children she shall bear if she chooses to become a mother… Only upon a free, self-determining motherhood can rest any unshakable structure of racial betterment.[27]
Janet, that would be thanks to the founding fathers whose legendary intelligence also had them balk at swallowing the christian party line:
J. Adams whose beliefs excluded the divinity of J. Christ,
B. Franklin who rejected belief in salvation, hell, and J. Christ’s divinity,
G. Washington a Deist and Freemason,
T. Jefferson who rejected the virgin birth of J. Christ, angels, prophecy, miracles, the Trinity™ Pat.Pend., the divinity of J. Christ and J. Christ’s resurrection and even created a version of the bible stripping out all of the above, what Mr. Jefferson deemed “nonsense”.
That would not be thanks to your biblical god who would have already arranged for my smiting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o
Q.E. Ah well, ya know, I was just trying to make a funny. People are still trying to convert me. Either to be a right wing nutter, or trying to convert me away from what I am.
I keep saying I don’t believe in a theocratic nation. I’m christian, yes I am, but I’m also democrat. I never believed per historical evidence that this is a nation founded on christian principals. I’m not on the right wing side. Never was, never will be. My faith beliefs are my personal business but people so love to make it an issue because so many on the right use faith as a weapon for the idea of righteousness for everyone, forgetting this is a free nation for ALL people. We all get to choose whatever we want to think, to believe, to stand up for, or to just be a couch potato. If I want to believe in a God you think is nothing, what is that to anyone else, when I’m not trying to convert anyone? It sure is happening towards me the other way around. I don’t know how to smite anyone, and have never tried. I’d rather just give a hug and a noogi and be on my way.
I just hope this means she can return to the vampire books I liked so much but she abandoned after being ‘reborn’
J – It all comes down to whether you would rather choose to think “whatever you want to think, to believe” e.g. cling to childhood indoctrinations which have ossified into adulthood unexamined (and give you comfort) or whether you are truly interested in learning (what you termed as “seeking knowledge” in your earlier post) what is true (if it has been so established by adequate evidence), most likely to be true (if not all the evidence is in yet) or more likely to be true (if evidence is completely absent).
If you were to bring your child to the doctor to diagnose a serious illness would you rather she base her diagnoses on “whatever she wants to think, whatever she wants to believe” including but not limited to witchcraft, astrology etc. (it’s her right after all) or base it on the best possible evidence e.g. tests, latest diagnostic methods, the most up to date science?
If you are being prosecuted for a crime you did not commit, would you rather the jury base their verdict on “whatever they want to think, whatever they want to believe” or on the evidence and the merits of the case?
What I would respectfully ask you to consider is the value of upgrading this culture’s tired platitude of “you’re entitled to your opinion, your own belief” to “you’re as entitled to your opinion, your own belief as you are obligated to provide reliable and verifiable evidence to support that opinion or belief.”
It’s the standard in Law, Medicine, and all other sciences where life-altering (terminating -in some instances) decisions are made. It’s the cornerstone of human progress. Why settle for a lesser one in any other area of life?
QE, a beautifully crafted response–one I am forced to spirit away for my own use. Thank you for this fine piece of writing.
In a juvenile attempt to run up the score, so to speak, I am reminded by this entire subject that opinions are to be based on fact, not be a substitute for it. As well, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but no one is entitled to their own set of facts. Too often, what passes for religious or spritual belief is nothing other then running away from facts that disprove a vested narrative, or, worse yet, intellectual laziness.
In both cases, handily disguised as “opinion”.
You are right. An unexamined life…..
You’re entitled to whatever opinion you want, as long as it doesn’t prevent someone from having whatever opinion they want. Facts don’t have to enter into personal opinions. I thought that would have been obvious watching the debates between the left and the right.
You, my friend, ARE IN DENIAL. WAKE UP. Did you read what I said??? But aren’t we sooooo selective in our beliefs.
I had 2 dear friends, WHO WERE HOMOSEXUAL, DIE in the month of March 2007, both of whom I warned to REPENT-beforehand. Both were named Daniel, which in Hebrew means “God is my judge.” Now…I WARN YOU BECAUSE I LOVE YOU. REPENT and stop incurring upon yourself the wrath of God!!!
Repent for mischaracterizing God and HIs attributes. WE ARE ALL SINNERS…God understands, but He DOES NOT except it when we roll over and…GIVE IN. God does not tolerate our UNBELIEF, but He does understand that we are weak and frail. I have to acknowledge and repent EVERY DAY for my sins, BUT I WILL NOT BOW MY KNEE TO BA’AL. I did let God’s word speak for itself, so what point of Romans 1 did you not understand.
God Bless you and enlighten you.
“I have to acknowledge and repent EVERY DAY for my sins,”
Just another example of “you get what you put your attention on”, or “you are what you resist”. Battling sin, gets more sin.
Q.E.
I have been around the mountain over and over again on why I believe. I find it doesn’t do me any good to try and argue, when there are those that will not understand, for whatever reason. So if I give you an answer you don’t like, as this is my opinion, this is my view, it’s more then that, of course. I have reasons, they will not likely be any more ecceptable to you, either. I am intelligent enough to think on my own, contrary to what so many would like to think.