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A reader writes:
“10 million people may be fooled by a lack of facts, mainly because he [Glenn Beck] appeals to a gut emotion. What he says “feels right” to them. But the same is true for Obama supporters. The facts demonstrated that he had insufficient qualifications for the presidency, but because his words resonated with the feelings of people who lacked access to those facts, he was elected. That group of people terrifies me much more than Beck’s 10 million. I can tune out Beck. The president establishes policies and regulations that affect my life in realtime.”
A few points…
A) Yes, Beck appeals to a gut emotion. It’s what you get when one premises most of what they say with “If you honestly love your country…” or “If you believe in freedom…”. When one does that, then it gives credence to almost anything one chooses to say in the rest of the statement. It could be a total fabricated lie (most won’t bother to fact-check, so why not). It doesn’t really matter, you’ve got your listener hooked. The part that rings out is that yes, dammit, you love your country and you believe in liberty!
Selling propaganda and lies by means of appealing to people’s sense of patriotism and basic fear of loss of liberty is an old game. Hitler’s rose to power in large part because he was a master at zeroing in on German’s basic love of country and was able to make the most of the humiliation and defeat many felt over the Treaty of Versailles.
B) I would ask the reader above, what “facts” do you think that Obama supporters lacked? His true place of birth? I can’t imagine a presidential candidate I knew more of than Barack Obama. I remember one of the networks sending over a film crew to Indonesia to check out the school Obama attended as a child. Sheesh.
In the eyes of conservatives, Obama’s greatest fault (and the only one that really counts for them) is that he’s not a conservative.
C) If anyone believes that much of anything would be different with the political climate in this country should Hillary have won, they just don’t get it. With the exception of the birther movement and the racists on the far right, nothing would change. Repubs are simply not interested in moving the country forward with a liberal in the White House. That is clear. Obama, Hillary, Edwards, it doesn’t matter which Democrat would have won…the rhetoric from the right would have been identical.
It’s not about health care or the economy or Afghanistan…it’s about regaining power. That’s all that counts for repubs and most conservatives. Once you grasp that concept, understanding why they speak the crap they do becomes a piece of cake.
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You’re right.
Thanks a heap for bursting that bubble of fantasy in which I was trying to ride out this miserable year. lol
As an uncle of mine used to yell at the radio when his baseball team was losing “Ehh they’re all BUMS!”
Wait a minute though, before I give up my last fantasy that might not be just that.
I have considered that Hillary either wanted or would have been happy with one term. Since with no desire for a second she’d have been able to afford, politically speaking to sweep in and outrage everyone on the right, gift her loyalists with all that we progressives wanted then bow out with one hell of a legacy.
After all, I’m not sure at her age that she would really care to take the beating she knows better than anyone is a two term presidency but I can see her wanting to be in just to avenge what the republicans put her through when they impeached her husband, if not for any love of the little people.
She’s nothing if not complex & impossible to second guess.
And when one debates or discusses with this as a foundation for their position; “In the eyes of conservatives, Obama’s greatest fault (and the only one that really counts for them) is that he’s not a conservative.” then all reasonable exchange is lost.
I’m not sure I understand how one can state on the one hand, that it’s all about regaining (and/or holding) power and deny the same holds true for the other side. At least, with any degree of intellectual integrity.
“Yes, Beck appeals to a gut emotion. It’s what you get when one premises most of what they say with “If you honestly love your country…” or “If you believe in freedom…”. When one does that, then it gives credence to almost anything one chooses to say in the rest of the statement.”
How is that any different than a complete presidential campaign based on the slogan Hope and Change. During the campaign, there were many calls for specifics of the changes promised. My wife, a liberal, told me recently that if she had known what this president was going to try to do, she wouldn’t have supported him.
I don’t disagree with you about item C). But same was true from the left when Bush was in office.
I’m still waiting, with an open mind, for that list of lies attributed to Beck.
Tenn., if you look at history, the Republican’s issue bass has always tended toward either gaining power or keeping power and in serving those who are in the best position to get and keep power.
If you look at the history of Democrats, they often went to the “little people” congregated in voting blocs to make larger masses in order to get things done. They also have historically had a larger umbrella of inclusiveness and so, unfortunately, this means that more arguing takes place, but so does more listening and learning about other peoples points of view. The biggest problem for Democrats historically has been staying unified while trying to help everyone get their disparate agendas get achieved.
The Republicans, historically, have had a smaller, less inclusive umbrella with a much smaller agenda so it is easier to get agreement and unity. The biggest problem, though, is that their agenda is so narrow and undemocratic and filled with all the ambitions of power for big business, big Pharma, Big Insurance industry, Big Corporate Power Politics, that the average person has gotten lost in their calculations.
We are in danger, under that agenda, of losing democracy in favor of corporations running our country with no accountability to voters, only to Wall Street and board rooms of moneyed people. When your agenda is gaining and keeping power, these people so quickly forget that power corrupts and absolute power (as in non-accountable corporations) corrupts absolutely. Without accountability to it’s citizens, a corporate run America is no longer America.
@Tommy Pane
just a few of Beck’s lies:
1. President Obama not born in America
2. All president’s use the Bible when being sworn into office
3. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/jul/29/glenn-beck/glenn-beck-claims-science-czar-john-holdren-propos/
4. http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/cash-for-clunkers/
5. How many people showed up at his 9/12 rally
6. http://mediamatters.org/research/200911170018
Thanks Janine. After going through the list that you provided, I can see the words “distorted” or “opinionated” being used to describe his comments. Between his radio and TV shows, how many hours a week is this man on the air? Given that, you could only produce 6 points covering the last year.
I still believe that calling him a liar is an attempt to marginalize him. And since the attempt to marginalize him won’t work on those on the right, I can only assume the marginalization is geared toward preventing anyone who’s currently leaning left from listening to anything he has to say. Why? I guess the left is afraid that some of the sheep will wake up.
Oh c’mon Tommy. If Janine or anyone else wanted to take the time, we could write volumes on this guy. Search for Beck on this site alone if you’re really interested in learning about Beck. I’ve pointed out a bunch of his garbage. Then you can pay a visit to MediaMatters where you’ll find documented proof over the last year or two on the idiocy of Beck.
But I don’t think you’re really interested. You sound like someone who sort of likes what Beck says and find yourself in agreement with much of what he says. So asking anyone to waste their time to give you a list of Beck lies is kind of silly. It’s all out there. Do your own work if you really care to know. It’s not that hard. Really.
@Tommy Pane
I said I was just providing a few examples (a few!)
Is it not a lie to say the President wasn’t born in America? or to you, is that just a ‘distortion.’ This lie and many others were used by Beck to whip of frenzied teabaggers.
Is it not a lie to say that all president’s have used the Bible when being sworn in? When any fact checker can find out that’s not true in a nanosecond……
There are many, many more examples Tommy, find them your own self, because when I point something out, present my point of view, you guys tend to berate the messenger. So no matter what Becklies I may find and post in this comment section, they will not be received by you as anything less than suspicious
Good luck Tommy. Been through this one before, only it was with O’Reilly. Upon being informed about the thousands of lies he tells; lies EVERY TIME he opens his mouth, I questioned, “Yeah. Well, if he lies that much it should be relatively easy to to give me at least one example.” Of course, they couldn’t and a couple of days later the best they could offer was something about some award he said he got that apparently he didn’t.
You’re right. It’s just an attempt to marginalize not only Beck, but anyone who watches his show. It’s a manner of automatically dismissing your thoughts and opinions because they don’t fall into some nice little package that they can approve of.
You know how it goes. “You just parrot Fox/Beck/O’Reilly/Savage/Hannity, etc.” Whoever they can come up with to dismiss you without having to really take the effort to consider your thoughts and engage you.
@TN
Oh Tenn, that dog won’t hunt and you know it.
you marginalize just about everyone’s comments here, you personally attack commenters and you specifically will not consider any point of view unless it comes from Fox/Beck/O’Reilly/Savage/Hannity etc.,
So your indicating the ‘they’ dismiss other’s opinions while doing so yourself is a pot/kettle chicken/egg straw/scarecrow thing.
@Tommy Pane: If someone was a known liar, why should I pay any attention to him? Did your parents ever give you the lecture about how once you’re caught in a lie, people will tend to think of you as a liar and not take your word for anything anymore? Damn right I want to marginalize a liar.
The guy’s an entertainer. A humorist. A huckster for gold sellers. And a liar. He appeals to a certain segment of TV viewers – ones who are easily taken in by this type of person.
Well Janine. You are simply lying. I would allow you “mistaken” but I don’t think so. I think you are just lying. (Pompous also comes to mind.)
You would do well to save your lectures and apply your effort more studiously to that “Civil Discourse” you’re always shedding crocodile tears over.
Quit crying. If you can’t run with the big dogs, stay on the porch.
@TN
Thank you for proving my point for me
Tenn., your words to janine about civil discourse come off as absurd when you are such a great example of the lack of civil discourse! Go look in the mirror!
You lied. What do you expect me to do? You made a patently false statement about me. You didn’t express an opinion. Like I said. You lied.
@TN
No, I did not lie. I made patently true statements about your comments on this blog,
thank you for continuing to prove my point for me.
Melody, while I admire your friendship with Janine and you coming to her defense, it does not alter the fact that she made a false statement. And I would suggest you re-read. It is not I, but Janine that cries about the inability of liberals and conservatives to have civil discourse. Personally, I don’t care. I can handle it either way without crying.
And this is a perfect example of how you guys handle discussion. You try to “marginalize” anyone who doesn’t fall lockstep with your philosophies. Then cry foul if they don’t just meekly and quietly accept your ridicule.
My advice? Don’t lie and I won’t feel compelled to call you out on it.
“…because when I point something out, present my point of view, you guys tend to berate the messenger.”
The libs have a patent on that Janine.
Beck is dramatic. I don’t watch him or listen to his show, but from what I have heard, I agree with his message. Government is too big. Making it bigger is bad for America.
And Frances, name one politician who doesn’t lie.
Okay Janine. I refuse to participate in any more immature exchanges.
I know you are, but what am I? …. Infinity.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOGWbzUM-y8
Entire State of Tennessee ablaze – authorities have traced the cause of the blaze to a single pair of pants. Film at 11.
Tenn., Janine expressed her opinion of you based on your behavior on this site! I think she was entirely accurate! Also, if just expressing an opinion about a person, then one cannot lie as one is being true to one’s feelings and simply assessing the other person’s character! Only when talking about something other than an opinion about a person, such as dealing with news items, historical fact or quoting a book or other source does one have merit to talk about lies since those can be sourced and checked. Your character, as seen on this sight, Tenn., can only be construed as exactly what Janine stated!
Now that was funny. Even if at my expense.
Way to go, Frances!
Melody, you are supposedly educated so you should know the difference between a “Statement” and “expressing an opinion”.
Janine lied. Do or say as you please. I’m through with it.
I’ve got to go find a fire extinguisher!!
Bon nuit
CAN’T let TN’s latest lapse of memory (pre-Alzhemic or just full on limbic..? you decide) stand.
“It is not I, but Janine that cries about the inability of liberals and conservatives to have civil discourse. Personally, I don’t care. I can handle it either way without crying.”
TN December 16, 2009 at 6:18 pm
Now, ‘Mr. I Can Handle It’ (TN)from NOV 23:
“Mario, I find it difficult to believe you let Kenneth’s threats stand. Knowing there are over zealous whack jobs out there like him makes me very uneasy about participating.”
“At no time have I or WOULD I threaten the President with anything stronger than my vote. I hope you will see fit to rein this kind of threatening behavior and ignorance in”.
“It would not be a pleasant situation for any party concerned if I were to wind up on some whack job’s list as a result of my participation in the exchanges on this blog.”
TN November 23, 2009 at 3:36 pm
http://j.mp/TN_Crying_A_River – Crying like the faux (very small ‘c’) christian bitch he is Mr. ‘I Can Handle It’ was crying a different tune 3 weeks ago. So, I’m gonna ‘vote’ for TN as not just ‘off his meds’ (or, over medicated), I suspect, much like his heart throb ‘Glenda’ Beck, he’s a full on ‘pathological liar’.
(“…someone who lies incessantly to get their way and does so with little concern for others.” http://j.mp/q3Vka )
And, ‘it’ compounds ‘it’s’ demonstrated mental disorder by insulting y(our) intelligence by ignoring y(our) ability to ‘fact check’ ‘it’s’ lies.
Save it, sicko. We KNOW ‘the score’.
Way to do your research and homework, Kenneth! Hats off to you! That is my kind of reporting! Good job! Take that, Tenn.!
There’s a difference Melody. I didn’t threaten anyone with anything. And I don’t use profanity.
There may be some examples where I may have lost my cool and responded in a manner I should not have. But none of these are an example of such. And unlike Janine, I have never lamented the inability of Liberals and Conservatives to engage in a more civil manner of discourse.
Kenneth made a direct threat. If he were to carry through, I would take such recourse that might be available to me. And if someone were to show up on my doorstep because some over zealous whack job like Kenneth was trying to be “cute” it would have disastrous consequences on everyone involved. Myself included.
I responded as I did as I’m pretty sure that while Mario will tolerate us bickering from time to time, I’m relatively certain he does not condone actual threats being made as it could prove to have terminal implications to the blog. It’s unfortunate you cannot understand the difference between bickering and someone making threats.
So, to sum it up: Janine remains a liar. At least in this instance. Your effort to defend her was admirable if misplaced. Frances actually came across with a real funny. And Kenneth should return to his silence. When he resorts to threatening people, there is more at stake than just his miserable little world.
Take that Melody! ;-)
Different day, same-O same-O BS. Please, post up the ‘threat’, day / date / and time TN so that everyone’s on the same page, ‘pants-wetter’.
Or, continue to ignore the well-made point , (you’re a serial mis-representer/liar) & hope no one takes the time to (re)read the thread, and instead, ‘trust’ in the word of a pathological/compulsive liar.
I’ll (continue to) ‘pray’ for you, reb, and, If you post an addy, I’ll FEDEX a Psalms 109:8 ‘care’ bear too!
Tick – Tock…
Why don’t we do this you insufferable jerk. I’ll send you an “addy” and you stop by for a cup of tea. Please!!!!!
Well? Don’t be ‘shy’, let’s have it:
______________________________
_______________________ ______ ___________
Or, go ‘cry’/lie to Mario you GIANT ‘mew’, you. (not to be confused with the kick-ass, carbon-fiber reinforced, 10′ tall Na’vi of Pandora) i mean ‘pussy’.
So much for ‘Mr’:
“Quit crying. If you can’t run with the big dogs, stay on the porch.” December 16, 2009 at 6:04 pm
“I don’t care. I can handle it either way without crying.” December 16, 2009 at 6:18 pm
Stop trying to intimidate the women, hand-wringer’, it is… PUH-thetic, even if you ARE an over/under medicated ward of the state, it could get you ‘marked’ for involuntary ‘reprogramming’ and shipped off to one of our commie/lib-ruhl re-education camps (or, at least, anger some anger management hours therapy and some community service.
In Na’vi: ‘Kahming Nyahag’
Tenn., I have reread the entire post and I cannot find anywhere that anyone ever threatened you! Not even close. I guess I have to sadly conclude that you are mentally out to lunch on this one. I carefully reread every response. There is no threat. Tucker only quoted you over and over and gave date and time of your quotes showing where you were “grossly inaccurate” or shall we just call it what it really is….lying! I’m so sorry but the journalist in me respects Tucker finding the exact quotes and the date and time and posting your very words and your very contradictions or …lies…and he did so matter of factly. No threat ever delivered. Until you went ballistic and aggressive which serves no one. Everyone needs to take a deep breath and a step back. You did make contradictions and most people call those lies. Sorry, Tenn.
NUNC EST BIBENDUM!