What A Romney Win Would Have Meant

Mitt and Ann Romney - the Tragicomedy Ends  :   http://mariopiperni.com/

Rachel Maddow lists the huge implications of what an Obama win means…or more precisely, what a Romney loss means in terms of what is not going to happen. There’s some pretty big stuff here and a good reminder of the tragedy that could have been.

We are not going to have a Supreme Court that will overturn Roe vs. Wade.
There will be no more Antonin Scalia and Samuel Alioto’s added to this court.
We are not going to repeal health reform.
Nobody is going to kill Medicare.
Nobody is going to make old people in this generation fight it out in the open market for health insurance.
We are not going to give 20% tax cuts to millionaires and billionaires and expect programs like food stamps and kids health to cover the cost.
We are not going to make you clear it with your boss if you want to get birth control from your health provider.
We are not going to redefine rape.
We are not going to amend the United States Constitution amendment to stop gay people from getting married.
We are not going to double Guantanamo.
We are not eliminating the Dept of Energy, the Dept of Education, the Dept of Housing at the Federal level.
We are not going to spend 2 trillion dollars on the military that the military does not want.
We are not scaling back on student loans because the new plan is you should borrow money from your parents.
We are not vetoing the dream act.
We are not self-deporting.
We are not letting Detroit go bankrupt.
We are not starting a trade war with China on inauguration day.
We are not going to have as President, a man who once led a mob of friends to run down a scared gay kid to hold him down and forcibly cut his hair off with a pair of scissors while that kid cried and screamed for help.  And there was no apology, not ever.
We are not going to have a Secretary of State John Bolton.
We are not bringing Dick Cheney back.
We are not going to have a foreign policy shop stocked with the architects of the Iraq war.  We are not going to do it.

We had the choice to do that if we wanted to do that as a country, and we said no.


(h/t: thanks to Steve M. for providing the Maddow transcript)

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65 thoughts on “What A Romney Win Would Have Meant

  1. We are not going to force people to put their social security in the hands of Wall Street, thereby not having huge amounts of seniors living under bridges.

    We are going to further dumb down our schools or privatize them, in order to start teaching “bible school” instead of science.

  2. LOVE Rachel for doing this! (and Cheryl…I know you meant we would NOT dumb down our schools…)
    I’m saving it for the next four years so that when I’m dissatisfied with policy, I can remind myself of what might have been and be grateful, even for the compromises.

    I want to remind you of the important words POTUS offered in his Victory Speech…”your vote is not the end of your citizenship requirement, it is the BEGINNING of the work to come…” (I paraphrase)
    Please plan to stay engaged and help push good ideas and policy FORWARD. We must be a more engaged citizenry and not allow “what might have been” to ever come to the fore again.


  3. And that list….is why they lost. And as long as we can get massive amounts of people to the polls to vote…..they will never win the presidency. Ever.

  4. via Facebook

    I’m so happy they didnt win..OMG could you just see all the damage his programs for america would cause from women to seniors ..even to big bird and planned parenthood…”you people” can go home now…you lost!

  5. via Facebook

    They speak to all things elitist. I have read Romney did not even have a concession speech for the prospect of a loss. Uber wealthy people really bother me!

  6. I don’t mind uber wealthy people like Bill Gates or Warren Buffet – those people realize how good they have it and they give back. Buffet leads the charge on taxing the wealthy more.

    It’s the insensitive and entitled asshats – the ones that want to make sure that the rest of us are starving in order for them to have even more – those are the ones that bother me. That’s the Romney category. That’s the real Republican platform. It did not used to be this way.

  7. Not only do the current republicans have no problem lying to their ignorant supporters, it appears that they also have the amazing ability to lie to THEMSELVES.

    And now they are under the delusion that if they can spread their conservative ideology in Spanish ……the Latinos will jump on board.

  8. Children of the uber-wealthy…who live entitled lives in contrast to their parents who struggled to build the family wealth, often emerge as “the rmoney class”…not all, but many. Mitt is a case in point. I agree that it depends on the family….i.e. Bill Gates…who has taught his children to remain grateful, pragmatic, empathic and generous.
    I grew up as many of us did, on the outskirts of some of the first “newly wealthy” heirs and witnessed this phenomenon first hand…and revolted against the dismissive and falsely confident attitudes. But I saw many “strivers” who adopted the same persona….and continue to gather behind and support the current crop of what has now become the stunningly wealthy. I continue to ask “how’s that working out for you?” as they fall farther and farther behind. I don’t believe it’s JUST the social issues that keep them hanging on, but “the promise of wealth and status you’ll never achieve without me” meme…the ego of having been “chosen to succeed” from among your peers.
    I doubt we’ll ever be rid of them entirely but I take heart that the nation appears to be revolting against them…re-balancing toward a fairer, more equitable future…and electing some who may grease the path, like Elizabeth Warren.

  9. What I found utterly amazing after this election had a chance to breath, is the unmitigated gaul of the republican party to have NOT done their homework since the year 2000. I say this because as we all know, when George W. Bush became President in 2000 he had choosen as his Vice President, Dick Chaney. The GOP knew at this time that Mr. Chaney had no intention to succeed W. when he finished his term in office. Since this would not happen until 2008, the republican party effectively had 4 years then 8 years to find one person if not two, to represent the aging elephant in the Presidential camapign of 2008 ! THEY DID NOTHING ! How do we know this to be true ? History answered that question rather emphatically! Fast forward to today, one week after President Obama successfully defended his position as the Leader of the Free World, and what you have is a 12 year period where the Grand Old Party sat back in its proverbial chair, sipping a Cognac and puffing on a $100.00 cigar. More than likely, taking a nap after the fact, one that has lasted through 3 Presidential terms of office ! I find this behavior utterly preposterous! How one of only 2 main stream political parties, at least the two that garner the most votes in our presidential election….the Democrats & the Republicans….would allow something like this to occur. Think about it….in 12 years….the VERY BEST the republicans have come up with to represent their party is the following: (1) An aging 75 year old CACTUS from ARIZONA who as we know would NOT have risen at 3am to answer the red phone. (2) a 50’s something SOCCER MOM from ALASKA who had difficulty knowing where Russia was in proxcimity to her home state. Who thought the PENTAGON was really a PENTAGRAM and who had a uncanny way of writing down notes for a debate. She would write on her hand! (3) A flip-flopping, lying, corporate raiding, tongue twisting, morman from the state of Mass. whose idea of campaigning was to take the opposite view of whatever view was in the news that day!. Whose idea of downsizing was cripple a corporation financially, fire all its employees, outsource its jobs to foreign countries, and finally, suck all the profit, payroll, pensions from the place & move on to the next victim all while he would be campaigning for the presidency! (4) Tap a attention seeking congressman from the cheesehead state, who loves photo-ops showing himself excercising, or cleaning already clean pots in a food kitchen. A Congressman who thought foreign affairs were just that & better left to the individuals having them. But, had the foresight to say that contraception has no place in the home and life as we know it begins the moment that the moment has the moment! All this while having a glass or two of water ! These 4 individuals, were the CREAM OF THE CROP for the REPUBLICAN PARTY over a 12 year period! One word comes to me…..WOW ! This leaves me to ponder the Presidential Election of 2016. I wonder who WE as a nation will be introduced to in 3 years. Or, re-introduced to ! My funny inner voice (who I affectionally name Calvin, from the comic strip, Calvin & Hobbes) just spoke to me…..it mentioned two gifted shall we say, ignoramuses, Donald Trump & Rudy Guiliani. Somehow, I don’t think the Democrats have anything to worry about until 2025….maybe ! It all depends whether the aged elephant wakes up from its self induced coma!

  10. Frank….great post! Now when I try to figure out what this crazy party is thinking, I can only come up with one thing.
    The bubble. They live in a bubble and only confer with other bubble dwellers. Their propaganda lies work so well with the residents of bubble land, that they started to believe them themselves. After Bush, they came to the conclusion that they could get ANYONE elected. Everybody in the clown car during the primaries were leading in the polls at one time. Herman Cain? Newt Gingrich? Bachman? This will be a piece of cake, they thought. We could run a turd with a blond wig on!! Their big mistake, was forgetting that there was millions of voters that didn’t live in a bubble. And we must thank god that those non-bubble dwellers waited in long lines to cast their ballet. This race shouldn’t have been as close as it was. They won’t change, they will just use some bullshit propaganda aimed at Hispanics, blacks or woman when the midterms roll around. We must stay stoked, and make sure that we have a good turnout in 2014. Because now the republicans are pissed, and their enemy is us. And you can believe that they would love to teach us a lesson should they take the reigns of power. Scarey, isn’t it?

  11. Right on point, Sidney ! After watching the first GOP debate last year, I was dumbfounded! I could not believe these wingnuts from Crazytown were the candidates of choice. I mean, seriously, you had a womanizing pizza guy named CAIN, A snake oil salesman named HUCK, a dillusional guy named SANTORIUM or is it SANATARIUM ? HMMM….A womanizing space Cadet named NEWT, a backward somersaulting lying, tax cheating morman named WILLIARD (wasn’t there a movie by the same name….something about a RAT), a doctor named PAUL, an absent minded cowboy named PERRY, & a broom flying, twisted pretzel named Bachmann all vying for a shot at the BIG CHAIR. I said to myself 2 things….(1)….I hope wherever these “one flew over the cookoo’s next” pretenders received their university degrees, that their school’s president’s were not watching what was unfolding in front of a nationally televised broadcast! They had to be flabbergasted! (2) This election is in the bag! There is NO WAY any of these coneheads get elected. Thankfully, our worse nightmares did not come to fruition.

  12. I can sum up my feelings of relief and pleasure at having President Obama in the White House for another four years with one word: TRUST. I feel totally comfortable with him having our back, and doing what is best for the people of this nation with every battle he has to fight and every crucial decision he makes. Knowing this in my heart, I now have inner peace.

  13. I am very very grateful President Obama chose to try for a second term. I’m not sure I would have made the same decision. When you consider the hate and filth, the lying and cheating, the attempts at public humiliation, all done in order to prevent his having a normal presidency, I just don’t think I would have had the energy to enter the battle again. It speaks volumes about his love of country and his fellow man for him to offer himself for battle once again.

  14. As has been said many times, if the Republicans campaigned on what they really believed in, they’d get maybe 3% of the vote. So in order for them to win, they have to throw in a whole bunch of BS, convince a whole bunch of people that they’re more patriotic than the Dems, play the religion card, stir up fear of “the other,” etc, etc.

    What’s scary to me is that they do as well as they do. Hell, Romney got 47 or 48% of the vote. In a sane country, Obama would have overwhelmingly rolled over him. But, until we all decide to join the reality based community, that’s the way it’s gonna be.

  15. Sane country? We are bunch of close minded ignorant fools. Only by being socially liberal and fiscally conservative will this country will last another 100 years. Spend, spend, spend and then spend some more. If someone has something that means that everyone else should have it too? If Dems have real patriotism then they would set aside their foolish social issues and concede to the FACTS about our despicable economy and the wasted trillions of dollars printed and pissed away on institutions that made even worse decisions than the current administration. It has caused a large number of our foreign investors (which account for an enormous amount of our GDP) to be scared to death of the dollar and its reckless devaluation by our own government. President Obama will make history for the following reasons:

    1- The first half white – half black president
    2- The second worst unemployment rate over 8 years in the history of the US
    3 – Giving permission to US special forces to kill Osama Bin Laden
    4- Contributing to the start of WWIII by tolerating unrest and unchecked violence in the middle east.
    5- Assisting the House of Reps and Sec of Treasury in destroying the retirement of nearly 75 million Americans and pushing the US in to the deepest economic depression in our history.

    We need all the religion and luck and brains we can get.

  16. I hope that Obama can correct the mistakes and steer us in the right direction believe me. I dont have anything against him personally, only against the poor decisions he and our other leaders have made. I pray for the leaders of our country every day so they can make good decisions because unfortunately they have too much power and influence to do good or harm.

  17. The decisions President Obama and other leaders have made, Ross, were necessary to save this country from the economic freefall caused by eight years of the Bush administration (which, by the way, began with a budget surplus thanks to President Clinton), and a war declared over a false premise. If you are hemorrhaging to death, you’d better hope and pray someone has the good sense to apply a tourniquet.

  18. I’m over-ruling my reluctance to join in this thread as I see it as yet another re-hash of past facts and arguments that have been settled, at least here, but…

    First…your list of credits is abysmally incomplete. Regrettably, it’s a common meme since the President isn’t one to “puff his chest” every time he solves a problem.
    Second…I don’t have a clue which decisions you refer to…and who you’re implicating as “at fault”.
    Third…it’s easy to have a “bitchfest” if you don’t lay out any specifics.
    Fourth…you claim not to hold any ill will toward this President and yet you site nothing positive to convince.

    We try our best to stick to the facts here…happy to have your voice in the debate but give us something concrete to work with, please. Like exactly WHY you believe we’re headed toward WWIII, how you believe this President had a hand in “destroying the retirement of nearly 75 million Americans and pushing the US in to the deepest economic depression in our history.”
    Oh, and that unemployment rate, it and the whole financial collapse began decades ago…and culminated under Bush, as you know…and here I need to remind you that there’s a “JOBS BILL” sitting idle for over a year now due to the unprecedented obstructionism in the House…hopefully (and the signs ARE hopeful) this era is OVER and our Govt can get back to a more constructive posture.

  19. Carol…I’m glad you questioned Ross. I posted a response and erased it. Twice. It seemed kinda obvious that he is in the same club as redstate girl and Marco (what happened to,them anyway….we haven’t heard a word?) and members of the bubble club don’t need no facts. They KNOW what is going to happen, because their gut tells them so. Also fox and rush and drudge.
    You can’t have an intelligent debate with then. You can try. And I see you and Karen gave it a shot.
    The bubble dwellers are still in shock, and still in their bubbles.
    They are waiting for the conservative entertainment media to explain what happened. And they don’t know themselves yet.
    They could come back from the edge of insanity. We will have to see.

  20. Like you, I am so reluctant to engage…but I felt I shouldn’t leave Karen out there all by herself = )
    The comment does smack of troll but parts of it seem to have some redeeming value…perhaps I fool myself.
    We’ll see…

  21. Sydney and Carol — I know what you both mean about trying to defend the President in answer to these baseless, negative comments from the conservative right or trollers, as the case might be. It is an effort in futility. I guess I just can’t abide not getting in the last word when my President is under attack!

  22. That’s what drove me.
    I ‘love’ the opening shot… “the first half-white, half-black…” = NOT BLACK ENOUGH.

    We should know better! = )

  23. Karen……I am right beside you when it comes to getting the last word when defending our president!
    Carol……I normally love to engage. Before I post, I will spend time doing research to get my facts straight if I don’t already know the data. I will spend time writing a cohesive, intelligent , factual response. Sometime I will ask questions of the poster. And very rarely if ever do I hear back from them. They don’t debate. They can’t. You need facts to debate. Their more like a drive by talking points shooter. They blast their bullshite bullets, hit the gas, and keep on driving. Most likely posting the same thing on every progressive site they can find.

    But it is fun sometimes though, isn’t it?

  24. I must agree with your assessment of your thoughtful and factual responses!

    In answer to your closing query: sometimes….but I often, in retrospect, find it irritating and feel like I’ve raised my BP and rewarded the “perp”.
    The one thing that does come of it is a fleeting feeling of “righteousness”…sometimes a further clarification and reinforcement of my beliefs…sounds exactly like how the President makes a decision, doesn’t it?!?

  25. Not sure if “fun” is the right word for me, Sydney, as I hate arguing and confrontation. However, I love our President for his character and values and will defend him to the bitter end. In that instance, I become like a mama bear with her cub!!

  26. Here are some facts to support my list of accomplishments. Feel free if you think I have missed anything major to add your opinions:

    1- The first half white – half black president (This is a major accomplishment considering that there are only 46 million people in the US, according to the most recent US census, that claim to be black. That represents only 16% of our country. I am proud to live in a country where equal rights to minorities are manifested in such an amazing way.)

    2- The second worst unemployment rate over 8 years in the history of the US (A correction will be needed here, at the end of the 8 years under the currect administration it will be the number 1 worst unemployment rate in US history averaging between 13 – 15 million Americans out of work according to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics. Note that these numbers are actually higher considering the large number of long term unemployed or underemployed Americans not being reflected in these numbers.)

    3 -Giving permission to US special forces to kill Osama Bin Laden (Again perhaps the best decision made by our President to date. Bravo!)

    4- Contributing to the start of WWIII by tolerating unrest and unchecked violence in the middle east.( Totally avoidable if the correct foriegn policy can be enforced or enacted in regards to Russia, Isreal, Iran, Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Possibly unavoidable after the collapse of the Chinese government due to the same financial reason the US economy is currently suffering and will continue to suffer.

    5- Assisting the House of Reps and Sec of Treasury in destroying the retirement of nearly 75 million Americans and pushing the US in to the deepest economic depression in our history. ( I wouldn’t expect you to know this one since you you probably don’t understand complex global economics but I will make it simple to understand. Our amazing efforts by our leaders, and I dont pretend to only blame our current President for our current situation only blame him for the reckless efforts to correct errors that should have been left behind and involve all of us in a private debt issue that never should have been added to our already ugly federal debt problems. Please feel free to obsorb what your bias filled mind can with some, what I will assume arestartling facts about our economy.

    Our budget deficit this year will be $1.3 trillion. Our official national debt is about $16 trillion and last summer Congress gave the Obama Administration permission to increase our debt to $16.4 trillion. Our unofficial national debt, when you take into account unfunded liabilities and entitlement to our citizens, is closer to $100 trillion.

    By the end of this decade, according to the White House’s own prediction, the official national debt will surpass $20.0 trillion—not including off-balance-sheet items like old-age security, Medicare, and other government promises to its citizens.

    And there’s also hidden government guarantees not on the government book. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac own or guarantee half the residential mortgages in America. Who owns both of these companies now? The U.S. government. They “censured” both Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac on September 7, 2008.

    In effect, the government either owns or guarantees half the outstanding residential mortgages in this country. Five million home mortgages in the U.S. were either in the foreclosure process or delinquent last month, exposing our government to even more losses. Politician after politician has failed to reduce government spending. Their belief is that spending more money will fix the economic problem.

    Interest rates have remained so low for so long that inflation will become a serious problem for America in the months and years ahead. How does the government and an economy deal with inflation? Inflation is dealt with via higher interest rates. The artificially low interest rate policies of the past few years will come to hurt us in the future in the form of hyper-inflation and sharply higher interest rates.

    What does hyper inflation, enourmous national debt, and a global financial meltdown mean to investors funds in a typical ROTH IRA, Pension, or Mutual Fund? LOSSES in value due to capital losses, LOSSES due to hyper inflation (You think gas and movies are expensive now? Try paying 3 to 4 times that in the next few years. Grandet you will be making 3 to 4 times more also but how do you expect everyone looking to retire is going to survive off of 4 to 6 times less than what they were expecting and budgeting for?

  27. And sorry for my delayed response. I am a business owner that now has to work even harder to keep my employees jobs due to heavy taxes that suck my profits to pay in part for the banks mistakes. The same banks that wouldn’t give me a loan to start my business. Thank goodness for venture capitalist that understand how America was build and how business should be private and not federal. I now employ a dozen people no thanks to the piss poor stimulus. And don’t try to tell me that I didn’t start my business!

  28. Sydney,

    The only bubbles that are left to pop are the dollar bubble and the national debt bubble. And they will just like the internet, private debt and mortgage bubbles. Unfortunately reckless spending by BOTH Bush and Obama have made them inevitable. So pardon me if I refuse to believe his campaign message of CHANGE and HOPE.

  29. Well Ross, it seems that you copied most of that off one of the rightwing sites. I visit them also, and have read the same propaganda you spewed on their sites.
    If you are so, so concerned about the debt you should hope that nothing changes in congress. Taxes up, spending down. That will do away with out debt problem, after a couple of difficult years we will be in fine shape and we will never hear a republican scream about the debt, which they only do when a democrat is in the whitehouse anyway.
    Yes Obama is half white and half black, and he did kill bin ladan.
    But I wasn’t aware that you KNOW what is going to happen in the future. God your good, you nailed the unemployment number and the total debt!! Maybe you could pick me up some lottery tickets.
    And your a business owner too! With employees! And you are paying so much in taxes NOW (even though they have been the same for over ten years now). And your working harder!! I must say Ross………I don’t believe you. You know why I don’t believe you? Because I have owned my own business since 1988 and the loopholes available to corporate taxes are many and massive and every accountant worth his salt knows them. In the past, I have paid MORE in taxes then many people make in a year. And you know what that meant Ross? It meant I was making money. Good money. Oh we worked hard, my husband and I. My husband works over 60 hours a week. Hard work.
    I raised three children while I was working. Actually wearing them on my chest or back while I served customers.
    And I never complained about my taxes. Because a real business owner knows that they have something special. That they are blessed to live in a county that gave then that oppurtunity to prosper. So I paid my taxes, and didn’t think about the family used foodstamps, or someone collecting welfare was stealing something from me.
    And a real business owner would know that without customers, even if they paid NO taxes they couldn’t hire anyone, or expand. why? Because they have no customers, because the middle class shrunk and people lost homes and jobs and were watching every penny. And you know why that happened? Because of republican policies and ideology, that’s why. And if you are tying to hang your bullshit around the neck of this president, whatever your reason, I don’t know you, but I do know business and I know your lying. And I would bet that you voted for anybody but Obama.

  30. Carol,

    Since you are such a research buff. Instead of explaining the complex global economics surrounding WWII and how a bankrupt Germany felt like they had no choice but to hand over their government to a terrible person like Hitler and how the collapse of the oil bubble stifled Russia during the Cold War era. I will let you see for yourself, since anything I post gets dismissed as “lacking facts”, how economic factors play a huge part in world wars. I am not the only one that sees that we are entering a Global Financial Crisis. If you think that countries like China, Saudi Arabia and Iran are going to keep their cool when the crisis hits them then history doesn’t repeat itself.

  31. Ross — your criticisms and negative thinking are largely based on projected worst case scenarios. Absent a crystal ball, your ranting on the future is unfounded. I’m not a business person, but Sydney has effectively countered your gripes about being self-employed.

    Also, according to the CBO, the federal stimulous did help and continues to help our economy in its recovery efforts. This article sets out the facts: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/06/07/1098364/-CBO-Director-Demolishes-GOP-s-Stimulus-Myth.

    I suggest you adopt a positive attitude and have a little faith — it will take you far. Its a waste of time and energy to write history in advance.

  32. Sydney,

    Good for you! In 1988 I was 3 years old. I dont remember but I’m sure you remember how high intrest rate were and how difficult it was to afford any kind of loan as our economy suffered similar, yet significantly less harmful results to a bubble economy. I do own my own company and do business in 4 states. 3 of them are blue states and 1 is red. Guess which state I make more profits in? Not only have my 2 of my blue states increased taxes to my business but now our government wants to tax my financial supporters for helping me create jobs with the wealth they have earned.

    I have lived outside the country for sevral years and have seen how people make it through life just fine without heavy taxes. I am grateful to live in the USA and am not saying that we need to do away with the IRS or anything radical. Just cut the fat that feeds a fat nation.

    And since you assumed I am a liar I am going to assume you are fat.

  33. Karen,

    You guys talk out of both sides of your mouth. You site a report that shows “Projections” of what might have happened without the stimulus which artificially have raised employment and GDP. However you refuse to accept the projections by the same economists that predicted the burst of our bubble economy to begin with. Ignoring accurate facts about inflation wont make the inevitable scenario disapear because we throw $800 billion into the economy and print trillions more. See where we are in 1 to 2 years and you’ll think I had a crystal ball.

    And I guess I need to take lessons on how to avoid taxes from Sydney.

  34. Ross — we could argue all of this until the cows come home. You are a conservative, we are liberals — and never the twain shall meet. President Obama was dealt a rotten hand and he is doing his best to get our economy moving again. He won the election because voters had more confidence in him than they did in Mitt Romney. None of us can foresee what lies ahead for our economy, but going around spewing venom and having a doom and gloom attitude about the situation doesn’t solve anything.

  35. I am a Fiscal Conservative and Social Liberal. The same position most of our founding fathers had and a position in politics that unfortunately doesn’t exist thanks to ignorant partisan points of view unwilling to to reach across the isle. I never said Obama wasnt trying or that he was given a perfect deck of cards. My bottom line is that our country wastes BILLIONS of dollars on stupid stuff because it has its hand in everything. So if you want to call me anything call me a puritan. I couldnt care less if gays get married, if people want to smoke pot or people want to kill their babies before they are born as long as I dont have to pay for it personally.

    Tell me if you think these are necessary budget expenses worthy of tax payer dollars?

    The federal government made at least $72 billion in improper payments

    Washington spends $92 billion on corporate welfare (excluding TARP) versus $71 billion on homeland security.

    Washington spends $25 billion annually maintaining unused or vacant federal properties

    Government auditors spent the past five years examining all federal programs and found that 22 percent of them — costing taxpayers a total of $123 billion annually — fail to show any positive impact on the populations they serve

    Examples from multiple Government Accountability Office (GAO) reports of wasteful duplication include 342 economic development programs; 130 programs serving the disabled; 130 programs serving at-risk youth; 90 early childhood development programs; 75 programs funding international education, cultural, and training exchange activities; and 72 safe water programs

    Washington will spend $2.6 million training Chinese prostitutes to drink more responsibly on the job

    Federal agencies are delinquent on nearly 20 percent of employee travel charge cards, costing taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars annually

    The Securities and Exchange Commission spent $3.9 million rearranging desks and offices at its Washington, D.C., headquarters

    Health care fraud is estimated to cost taxpayers more than $60 billion annually

    The refusal of many federal employees to fly coach costs taxpayers $146 million annually in flight upgrades

    The federal government owns more than 50,000 vacant homes

    Washington has spent $3 billion re-sanding beaches — even as this new sand washes back into the ocean

    The Defense Department wasted $100 million on unused flight tickets and never bothered to collect refunds even though the tickets were refundable

    Over one recent 18-month period, Air Force and Navy personnel used government-funded credit cards to charge at least $102,400 on admission to entertainment events, $48,250 on gambling, $69,300 on cruises, and $73,950 on exotic dance clubs and prostitutes

    Congress has ignored efficiency recommendations from the Department of Health and Human Services that would save $9 billion annually

    Lawmakers diverted $13 million from Hurricane Katrina relief spending to build a museum celebrating the Army Corps of Engineers — the agency partially responsible for the failed levees that flooded New Orleans

    Audits showed $34 billion worth of Department of Homeland Security contracts contained significant waste, fraud, and abuse

    Washington recently spent $1.8 million to help build a private golf course in Atlanta, Georgia

    I didn’t take the time to add it all up and by no means is this list all inclusive. But if you are happy being ignorant and paying your taxes on hard earned dollars with your child strapped to your back so your money can be spent on this crap then keep on keeping on.

    And sorry if I took offense to someone calling me a liar.

  36. Ross…..My, my aren’t you full of facts today young man! I will read your above post in its entirety later when I have more time to enjoy it completely with a bag of popcorn and some ice tea.
    But just want to mention a few things. Ross everyone is fiscally conservative with their personal finances. I’m a liberal. I know lots of other liberals. Never once have I ever heard one that lived a lifestyle of spending their resources on crap and toys and useless shit, and not save money for food and housing for their families. Not one.
    But Ross….running a government for,the benefit of all it’s citizens is nothing , absolutly NOTHING like running your personal finances. Just like you could never run your home using conservative ideology.
    Now while you somehow use financial supporters (other people’s money) to run “your business”, we made our money ourselves, using our time, sweat, physical labor. We borrowed nothing. And we made stuff Ross. Real stuff. Sounds like your running a Nigerian email scam from your basement. Not too much heavy lifting there Ross. Really. To be complaining about taxes eating up other peoples money that you need to run “your business” with sounds kind of hinky to me. Now……..
    Did you really call me fat Ross? Really? I’m not. Not at all. But you….I’d have to call you a “pretend businessman”.

  37. I stand corrected. See how I apologize for calling you something you weren’t?

    Now……..If everyone was fiscally conservative with their personal finances then there would have been no personal debt bubble, no mortgage bubble and no college loan bubble. I can appreciate that people like you work harder rather than smarter to earn their living and I assure you I employ many of them. And sorry that I am “a pretend business man” because my business required expensive specialized testing equipment and training in order to improve our environment and lower costs to everyday people trying to pay the bills. Your personal attacks on me don’t dismiss the fact that your money is wasted without your knowledge.

    It is a painful fact to face. Especially when you contributed to it by keeping your mouth shut and working hard and voting people in office that dont see it as a needed change but rather want to charge us more so we can continue to pay for things that are actually important.

    You all assume that because I dont approve of the job done by President Obama that I am the same as every other extreme right wing conservative that thinks that foodstamps and medicare are a waste of money. Well you dont know me or my life experiences so lets cut the personal attacks. They are pointless just like me calling you fat.

  38. Ross…..it was heartening to read that your involved in helping the environment . And I am going to assume that somewhere along the line government money is involved. Tax dollars has always been involved in developing new technology. My tax dollars.
    Now Ross I have one more name for you…..gullible. You should really know by now that everything you read on the interwebs is not true. And just because you present to us a story posted word for word from the rightwing hogue news website, a bullshit article written by Brian Ridel from the heritage foundation doesn’t make it true. The heritage foundation is a pimp for the republican party. Now, your 26 years old……soon you will be the big 30, you really should remember that there are an awful lot of propaganda on rightwing websites. And their only purpose is to spread hate and fear through lies. And the heritage foundation makes millions doing what they do. They are very good at it. Don’t fall for it.

  39. Dont blame the auditors for finding wasted tax dollars and pass it off as propaganda. Gullible would be to believe that all your hard-earned tax dollars are being used with the utmost care and respect. Government funded programs, for fear of losing funding, will waste money on frivolous things just so they can make sure they get the same amount of money or more the next year.

    And no, my business doesn’t rely on government-funded programs. All the programs that we used are privatized. In fact, to further prove my point all of the section 8 housing projects that could be my customers are given to contractors that massively inflate their prices because they know that the government is happy to pay for their greed with our tax dollars.

    Just face the fact that time equals money and our money isn’t worth the time of our president and political leaders time to go over with a fine toothed comb to find all the crap that flies under the radar because someone has a lobbiest friend and was able to snake a budget approval in. No in fact our president would rather comment on every sporting event, go on talk shows, and smoke his cigaretts than save the American people a few extra dollars. Oh but sorry I forgot to add that to his long list of White House accomplishments that he was able to quit. Thank goodness he is an example in something.

    So in conclusion, no, it is not propaganda it is real life and if you think that everything is flowers, rainbows, kittens and sunshine in our government then you are the gullible one.

  40. Ross:

    1- You do nothing to endear yourself to the “participants” here when you denigrate the President, especially in a snarky and sarcastic manner. There are many people, organizations and more than enough $ fighting to preserve the status quo…we’re on the side of continuing to build a constituency in opposition to those forces and see this President as a champion for our goals…not with blinders and pipe dreams, but with clear eyes and continuing effort.

    2-We don’t think everything is flowers and rainbows….but we hold on to that indestructable instinct, through the trials and tribulations that come, which we define as HOPE. (The President said it far better in his Victory Speech…take a listen) start at about 4:30…http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb_BRb1B-9M&list=PLzGHKb8i9vTwj26iPFufQA81ewoBtSkke&feature=player_embedded
    This is not “just rhetoric”, it’s what we here BELIEVE…not just in response to this President, but as a philosophy of life as a whole.

    3-This President, early on in his first term, began an initiative to slim down and cut out the waste and fat in ALL DEPARTMENTS of Govt…down to cancelling the order for coffee mugs. He’s lowered the deficit by millions already.

    4- Lobbyists and $ in general is a HUGE PROBLEM in DC….so let’s support any group who mobilizes toward eliminating it!

    5-This President has initiated and WON some of the largest fraud settlements in the history of Medicaid/Medicare.

    6- This President wants to CUT Defense spending. He didn’t declare war on Pakistan to get Bin Laden, costing America billions…he used the most efficient means available.

    7- This President cannot do it all on his own. That’s why I support outside groups who push for a smarter, leaner and more accountable Government…

    8- I could continue…but will end with this:

    It”s one thing to identify problems and another altogether to do what you can to FIX them…I happen to love the phrase “If you’re not part of the solution, then you’re part of the problem” and I use what energy and time I have to ensure we’re moving the country in the direction of SOLUTIONS. I feel empowered by my actions and I’m guessing if YOU were to give it a try, you might feel better too…more realistic and focused on NOW with your aim toward the future, less overwhelmed with the doom and gloom “forecasts” you seem drawn to…and that over time, likely years and years, you may even see some of your hard work enable the solutions you seek to come to fruition.

  41. Talk about rhetoric. Our president is a lawyer for crying out loud he is a professional fact-bender and deceiver trained on how to get everyone to believe his point of view. All he has to do is give a fancy speech with his eloquent oration and every liberal extremist and uneducated American jumps on with gusto! And sorry but cutting a few million dollars from a multi-trillion dollar budget is like slapping a rhino with a string. A few million dollars might mean a lot to people like you and me but to the government would rather let it be pissed away than take the effort to review budget spending. I have a favorite quote too “You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.” Abraham Lincoln.

    Your time will come when you stop being fooled and you then perhaps will be more skeptical of people you choose to trust so blindly.

  42. We

    “see this President as a champion for our goals…not with blinders and pipe dreams, but with clear eyes and continuing effort.”

    Excellent post, Carol! Unfortunately, Ross will dismiss your challenge as he is much too caught up in the muck and mire of the blame game to adopt any kind of positive thinking or action.

    Ross — what I especially appreciate when I listen to the President speak is his genuine sincerity that comes through to me loud and clear. I think I’m a pretty good judge of character and I know when I am being fooled. This President says what he means and means what he says. I have found that to be true of him, and to me, in the world of politicians, that is very refreshing. Not that I think he will be able to accomplish every positive thing he sets out to do for this country — there are too many negative forces that want to see him fail that are working against him — but I trust his motives and know he will give those efforts his all.

  43. Thanks Karen…
    Happy to know it struck a note with you…as you can see, the person I directed it toward has deaf ears…such a shame for someone so young.
    We’ll “HOPE” time will soften his stances and amend his views.

  44. I could be totally wrong, Carol, but I can’t help wonder if Ross grew up in a household of cynical thinkers. At any rate, he has such a negative mindset that I am convinced there is no penetrating it. I agree with you — I’m done here, too, as he is committed to seeing the glass as half empty no matter what is countered here. At any rate, I am looking forward to a better future — I believe if we all think that way, it just might happen!! :)

  45. I’m with you…positive energy=positive results…with a lot of hard work and determination….some call it HOPE.

  46. According to CBS the glass can easily be seen as half empty when it comes to Obama Promises.

    Kept Promises – 8
    Partially Kept – 8
    Broken – 6

    Among the broken promises:

    “… but I will also renew the tough, direct diplomacy that can prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons and curb Russian aggression.” BROKEN

    Just this month, Iran said its sole operational nuclear power reactor, built with Russia’s help, has reached full capacity. Iran says its nuclear program is peaceful, but the U.S. believes the new plant is part of Iran’s attempts to develop nuclear weapons.

    “Now is the time… to protect Social Security for future generations.” BROKEN

    The president hasn’t done anything to stabilize Social Security.

    In an April 2011 town hall, Mr. Obama suggested lifting the payroll tax cap: “So if we just made a little bit of an adjustment in terms of the cap on Social Security, that would do a significant amount to stabilize the system,” he said. However, the Social Security payroll tax remains capped at $110,100.

    “But I will also go through the federal budget line by line, eliminating programs that no longer work and making the ones we do need work better and cost less, because we cannot meet 21st-century challenges with a 20th-century bureaucracy.” BROKEN

    The president signed spending bills in his first term in spite of his objections to potentially unnecessary spending.

    “And for the sake of our economy, our security, and the future of our planet, I will set a clear goal as president: In 10 years, we will finally end our dependence on oil from the Middle East.” BROKEN

    In June 2012, the Wall Street Journal reported that the U.S. is on track, according to energy analysts, to end its dependence on Middle East oil — but not until 2035.

    So if you wonder why these promises are important look to my first few posts at numbers 2, 4 and 5. Also note that the majority of his promises kept involved increased spending.

    And growing up in a house of critical thinkers is more accurate. My parents voted always for the candidate that was best qualified for the troubles our nation faced and have voted for both Democrat and Republican candidates so don’t try and pass my comments off as right wing tunnel vision. If CBS is too right wing for you then I will stand all amazed.

  47. Ross…you are nothing but a rightwing nutjob. What do you think you are going to accomplish posting your bullshit propaganda? You think one of us is going to change our minds about Obama? Not going to,happen. The posters here are politically informed and wicked smart when it comes to the facts. Why don’t you go back to the sites where the people think like you do, because what your doing here is going to get you ignored soon. And rightfully so. We all feel like we have been put through the wringer watching these ridiculous republican politicians with their crazy-assed ideas. Many of us worked to get Obama elected. We feel like we have been through a war. And we won. But there’s people like you that don’t realize it yet. You come to our house, just to throw bombs. And it doesn’t feel right. The war is over little buddy. You lost. We won. It’s over. Really.

  48. Reading some of Mr. Ross’s post – he seems to suffer from the same problem that many of his ilk do.
    The inability to recognize

    1) The President is only one-third of the American Institution of Government, his goals/promises can only be accomplished by the spirit of co-operation and compromise of a Congress focused on bettering the economy and the Nation instead of retaining their own jobs and regaining power.

    2) “Until conservatives once again hold Republicans to the same standard they hold Democrats, they will have NO CREDIBILITY and deserve NO RESPECT. They can start building some by ADMITTING to themselves that, Bush CAUSED MANY of the PROBLEMS they are protesting.”
    – Bruce Bartlett a domestic policy adviser to President Ronald Reagan and was a Treasury official under President George H.W. Bush.

    Before we go on the “Still Blaming Bush” rants, the answer is NO ! we are factually pointing out that decades of GOP MISTAKEN ideology and policies, which are STILL still heavily entrenched in our political system, and which were exposed ever so obviously by the disastrous consequences to our economy and people by those mistaken policies UNDER Bush, is the root cause of most of what Ross is protesting.

    GOP instead of recognizing and learning from their mistakes have often chosen to double down on their ruinous policies as is apparent with the looming “Fiscal Cliff” debates.

    Sydney – I appreciate your great comments as well as the comments of many of the fine people on here who chose sanity over “bat shit crazy” in this election.

  49. Sydney you must be from Boston.

    I know I have written a lot on here and wouldn’t expect a closed-minded person who judges a book by its cover to realize that I said that our economic situation is not just because of what Obama has done, only that he has added wood to the fire instead of fire-retardant. All of the listed kept and broken promises listed have to do with our countries financial situation and THANK GOODNESS we have a government of checks and balances or we could be in an even more dire situation than we already are.

    Ignore the facts and broken promises all you want. Worship Obama all you want. Belittle people all you want. Puff yourselves up all you want with your self-proclaimed intelligence and open-mindedness.


    Being naive is forgivable and I appreciate that Obama has admitted that some of his promises were naive. But if he has time to watch 3 hour long sporting events several nights a week then I am lead to believe he hasn’t dedicated enough effort, or isn’t convinced enough of his influence, in order to make real CHANGE.

    There are no winners in war and politics. This has nothing to do about winning or getting people to hate Obama. It has only to do with people not holding anyone responsable for their mistakes be they Republican or Democrats. Passing the buck all the time is getting old and I wish someone would just man up.

  50. And dont worry I will stop beating my head against the wall. Old habits die hard especially in old people.


  51. You didn’t stop beating your head against the wall soon enough, Ross. Its apparent irreversible damage has already been done.

  52. Oh, Ross, Look in the mirror! Everything you said is a glorious description of your own sad rantings upon yourself. Manipulation is the game you play, just like the many vultures in your pathetic party of choice, which ahem, is the losing side for very good reasons. So, in your lost in space BS, which in the end really means you, and your sad group of sore losers are going to keep on trying to suck money out of the poor, which is what happens whenever your party tries to fix things in America. You WHINE your face off all you want to, but here, we have heard that dirty old song and dance enough to puke a mountain full. Learn how to properly judge the right, and the wrong in our politics, and the politicians. Learn where to find the real FACTS on what is wrong with this country, politically, and economically, and WHY…
    You WILL get over the pain, but in the mean time, pray for yourself. Ask God to forgive you for your slanderous racist views, and teach you how to discern right from wrong in how to talk to and treat ALL people equally.
    That half black, half white comment is an old dawg racist code comment. Nothing is worse to a bonafide racist then a white woman that has Willing relations with a black man. Worse yet, is to marry a black man, and the icing on the cake is to bear a bi-racial child. Such children are never called half white, the bi-racial offspring are considered black, regardless. African American’s. Even if the skin is pearly white, hair is blond, and eyes are blue. So I suggest before you embarrass yourself further, either get a serious clue! Or exist stage left….

  53. Excuse me Janet. First, I don’t have a party. Second, The simple fact that I am capable of recognizing the ethnic background of someone does not make me a racist.

    I’ll quote myself, “1- The first half white – half black president (This is a major accomplishment considering that there are only 46 million people in the US, according to the most recent US census, that claim to be black. That represents only 16% of our country. I am proud to live in a country where equal rights to minorities are manifested in such an amazing way.)”

    I would have listed the same thing as a reason he will be remembered in history if Obama was Asian or Hispanic. The fact is that being the first of your particular minority group to do something in this country is an accomplishment. Just like Kennedy was the first Catholic and Hoover the first Quaker.

    I don’t treat anyone differently based on the color of their skin, sexual orientation or religious beliefs AND have made no derogatory comment about any race in any of my posts. I am a minority myself and happen to be fluent in 2 languages and as an adult lived outside of the USA for several years. Don’t pretend like you know I am a racist. If I were racist against people that are half white and half black then I would be racist against my own family

    So if you think that I should feel embarrassed about the things I have said here then you are wrong. You can get upset and jump to all the conclusions you want but it doesn’t make them true. I have presented facts and whether you want to accept them or not is up to you. There are lots of people in this world that will deny facts until they are blue in the face. I like to use the recently coined phrase Inconvenient Truth. It doesn’t only apply to climate change but to anyone unwilling to accept facts for what they are when it damages their point of view.

    And just so you can be more politically correct yourself. The preferred word is Black and not African American. Again your ignorance is manifested through your passionate garble.

  54. Ross, “Your time will come when you stop being fooled and you then perhaps will be more skeptical of people you choose to trust so blindly..”
    Take heed with your own warnings. Most on here have done a huge amount of their own research on the facts according to politics, and the economy, and who the enemies of truth are.

    Take your own advice. I really don’t trust anything you say in defense of yourself. Your attitude, your judgments towards the good people that share in comments on this site, is enough to know the game you play. is that of the many who troll here often that identify as Cons or Libertarians. Equal rights has a very long way to go, with Native Americans having far fewer than African Americans. How you call it depends on the generation. Mine is both black and African American. I don’t care about political correctness. Respect is what matters most.
    People who talk about praying, then go off on the merry go round of name calling. It’s a fruitless game. I can get over a lot, but the name calling, the words on prayer Just Don’t Mix… Manipulate, playing games, trying to make people see truth in lies. Looking for ways to make yourself feel better? Business owner? Why are all of you business owners?
    Your facts are NOT facts,… They are lies. That makes you the ignorant one.
    That ends my chapter in this sad scene of yet another troll being fed.

  55. Janet…

    Then respect what people prefer, i.e., political correctness. I am sure your grandfather’s generation used the words negro or colored. Does that make it politically correct or respectful? Nope. But it really doesn’t matter, sticks and stones Janet.

    You obviously don’t understand our economic situation or you would be worried. Either that or you don’t have any money saved or invested in anything and that is why you don’t care to take the time to educate yourself.

    You and many other people have made no claims, other than that you know I am a racist and that I don’t own my own business that employs real live people who have families, and that everything I post is a lie.

    I have shared information from various sites including quotes from President Obama (not taking things out of context either) and CBS News, since Fox is considered fiction to you guys.

    Show me some facts and tell me something that can’t be considered blatant futile cheerleading since you have done so much research.

    It is appearent that at least someone appreciates my post on this site regardless of whether they agree.


    I know you’ve gotten a rough treatment from some on this site. I apologize for that.

    Just wanted to let you know that you’re always free to comment here. We may disagree politically but the articulate manner in which you express your political views is refreshing and most welcome.



  56. Hey, Mario is a good man, and I respect him a great deal. He puts up with far more then I could. I don’t happen to agree with letting so many people constantly browbeat, name calling, smelly attitudes, manipulate, and generally give people headaches just because they feel a need to convert everyone they don’t agree with. This is not my blog, nor my place to say if anyone I feel is unsavory in the same manner, is allowed to keep on with the same old thing. I did say exit stage left, sorry, Mario, that was not my place.

    I can’t tell you how sick, and tired I am of people like you, Ross. Answering any of your questions always leads to the same thing. We are gullible, yada yada, you don’t know what I know, here are the real facts, and what do we see? Oh, that pile of lies, again, on the same sites again. So, there you go… The thing that really errs me most, is when people say I will pray for, ______ you fill in the blanks. Then the rise in all the old tricks. Pretty much all of us that have been reading this blog from the beginning, or near it’s beginning have been treated with disrespect, and far worse. It gets to me. It gets to me because I am a faith believer, and I see “you” everywhere, even in the church, In fact the church is the best place to find believers that don’t abuse others in some way. through this false kind of help.
    This blog is filled with ALL of it. Read the thread, and you will find everything you need to know about any of us that take the time to comment. The people that have come here, and done just as you have done I don’t share in what my life experience was, is, anymore, because it just won’t matter to you. Understand> Been there, done that?? Tommy??
    Save yourself a reply. I’m moving on from this thread.

  57. OOPS! Erase, erase that. > In fact the church is the best place to find believers that don’t abuse others in some way. through this false kind of help. <
    Trying that sentence again… The church is the best place to find believers who abuse others in some way through this kind of false help.

  58. Mario is a good man because he understands a very improtant part of group and organizational psychology. There is a dangerous think called group-think and it requires in many cases for a “devils advocate” to speak against the grain to allow everyone in the group to open their minds and conisder other possible solutions, consequences or outcomes.

    If everyone just thought everything was going to work out great all the time and didn’t question the status quo then there would be limited progress. This principal has been around for ages and organizations that work and progress the best assign this job to someone in order to promote creative problem solving.

    If you are willing to listen to any single thing I would suggest then read a little from Edward L. Bernays and you’ll see what I am talking about.

  59. Manipulation. Trying to pick ones brain. Show them where they have head problems, and can’t think outside the box. You’re a real trip, all your own, man. Yeah…
    Gooood bye.

  60. Ross, yes you are articulate and didn’t call us libtards, communists, and socialists. You didn’t tell us that we were not real Americans and should leave “your” country. You didn’t insist that America was in fact, a Christian nation, and Obama and the dems are working with the devil and must be destroyed. You didn’t call Obama a lying Kenyan who was out to destroy America. And for that. We thank you. But had you fact checked your rant complaining about the many thing that our government wastes money on, you would of found that many of your talking points are outright urban legends (lies) and others, although true occurred under the steller leadership of the Bush administration. And while you were looking for wasted pennies you left out the Iraq war expense, and the trillions we spend in corporate welfare. You tell us to look at both sides and I suggest that you do the same..
    So……in my opinion you came here and shoveled to us the same rightwing propaganda as the wingnuts. But you did it, for the most part…….nicely, using somewhat intelligent language and you didn’t call us nasty names. After reading and banning some of the nasty-assed posts that Mario reads on a weekly bases, you, my friend must be a breath of fresh air to him. Why don’t you fact check some of your beliefs such as the government spending money to teach Chinese prostitutes how to drink , and get back to us and we will see if we find that air just as fresh as Mario does.

  61. Wishing all of the posters of this thread a happy Thanksgiving! I am especially thankful that we live in a country where we are free to speak our minds — to agree or disagree without fear of facing a firing squad. Although I lost my cool here a few times, as I am prone to do when President Obama is criticized, I respect the fact that we all have the freedom to express our opinions in a democracy. There are still many countries around the world that sadly don’t have that basic human right.

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