Mitt Romney believes that his best line of attack is making the claim that he has not spent a moment as a D.C. politician while his two main opponents, Newt ...
No two ways about it, Rick Santorum had a good night. Not only did he sweep Colorado, Minnesota and Missouri but he also got off the best line of the ...
Few would argue the fact that Citizens United has been a major player in the Republican primary...and many if not most would concede that none of it has been healthy ...
As if you needed another reason to not vote Romney.
Celebrity business magnate Donald Trump endorsed Mitt Romney for president Thursday, telling reporters he will not mount an independent campaign if ...
In a perfect world, the Republican contest to find a nominee to face Barack Obama would go on forever...or at least until August. You cannot attach a number to the ...
I suspect there are a ton of conservatives secretly agreeing with Begala and while it's too early in the game for Dems to get cocky, it's difficult to not smile ...
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Mike Huckabee offers advice to Mitt Romney concerning his unreleased tax returns.
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Good line.
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I found this pretty funny...and accurate. It comes from a reader over at Balloon Juice.
So, let’s review. The contenders for the GOP nomination are
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ocLiberal:
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Story 1:
North Korea punishing those who 'didn't display enough sadness over Kim Jong Il's death'
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Joe Lieberman is now going around claiming that the public option was never part of the presidential campaign. Take a look at this bit of exchange with TPM.
Lieberman: This is a kindof 11th hour addition to a debate that’s gone on for decades. Nobody’s ever talked about a public option before. Not even in the presidential campaign last year.
TPM: How do you reconcile your contention that the public option wasn’t part of the presidential campaign given that all three of the [leading Democratic] candidates had something along the lines of the public option in their white papers?
Lieberman: Not really, not from what I’ve seen. There was a little–there was a line about the possibility of it in an Obama health care policy paper.
The line Lieberman refers to reads, “Specifically, the Obama plan will: (1) establish a new public insurance program, available to Americans who neither qualify for Medicaid or SCHIP nor have access to insurance through their employers, as well as to small businesses that want to offer insurance to their employees.”
TPM: And at the time Senator Clinton, and John Edwards also had…”
Lieberman: Edwards probably had it more than anybody else. But Clinton, Obama, McCain–I don’t see it. Anyway, I’m opposed to it.
That’s a U.S. Senator talking nonsense and when challenged and presented with facts, he dismisses them and responds with a “anyway, I’m opposed to it.”
Spoken like a true twit, Joe. Good job.
___
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Lieberman’s informed. It’s only that he, like many others, benefit from making the truth of any matter difficult to find, or blurring the line between facts and opinion. TPM’s audience is fairly well informed and thoughtful, but if this exchange happened between on a major network, some in the audience might conclude TPM’s assertion was an opinion.
While his choice of words may have been poor, and his response to the line of questioning even poorer, Lieberman is certainly not the only Senator who has stated he is against a Public Option. And several of those are Democratic Senators as well.
And in fairness to Lieberman, I’m not aware of any candidate promising a complete overhaul of this Country’s Health Care System. And I think that is were this discussion goes off on divergent paths.
Most of us are aware something needs to be done about Health Care, the delivery and the costs. But I think most of us are still of the opinion we do not want the Single Payer System Obama, Frank and company are shooting for. Most of us are not in favor of heavy Government intrusion into the Health Care System.
I know you and Fact are not well acquainted but your penchant for revisionist history and jellyfish attachment to Republican talking points really doesn’t look good on you.
janine, I disagree. And both Obama and Frank have stated their goal is a single payer system and this effort is viewed by many as the only way to eventually foist it on the public.
Disagree all you want but the reality is that a public choice inclusion is just a choice people can choose or not choose. A single payer system would mean that the government takes over all hospitals and then you would have your socialism that you fear. No one is contemplating that
janine, Is this an example of “…not heavy government intrusion…”
“Dodd, DeLauro to Offer Emergency H1N1 Sick Days Bill
Two leading members of Congress on the issue of employee leave will team up to write a bill that would provide paid time off for workers who contract the H1N1 flu.”
First, only an idiot would not recognize the potential for abuse. But what just irritates the crap out of me is that these inept idiots think they have to legislate when I should stay home sick and when I should not.
How can you blame a segment of Americans for feeling Government is getting completely out of hand?
janine, so are you saying you do not believe Obama and Frank when they state their objective is a single payer system and the only way to achieve it is through first instituting the public option?
How can one have a single payer system when states can opt out ? Let’s see what is legislated and then dissect what is voted on.
On Lieberman,we all now know the conflict of interests involved here and any contribution from Lieberman is nullified by his wife being pecuniarily involved in the insurance business.
So, you give no credence to the statements by Obama, Frank and others that they ultimately want to move the country to a Single Payer system. And the easiest way to do that is to start with the Public Option.
this is what I believe may be contemplated by Obama, Frank etc.
Single-payer systems may contract for healthcare services from private organizations (as is the case in Canada) or may own and employ healthcare resources and personnel (as is the case in the United Kingdom).
The term single-payer thus only describes the funding mechanism—referring to health care being paid for by a single public body from a single fund—and does not specify the type of delivery. Although the fund holder is usually the government, some forms of single-payer employ a public-private system.
I believe what is contemplated, which may never pass, is a public-private system.
“For much of the 20th century, Sweden had a single-payer system of health care in which the government paid almost all health care costs. Like other nations with a single-payer system, Sweden has had to deal with the problem of ever-growing health care expenses causing a strain on government budgets. It has dealt with this problem by rationing health care – instituting waiting lists for medical appointments and surgery.”
Tenn., There are waiting lists now right here in the U.S. as evidenced by people who actually die in waiting rooms in ER’s across the country. Also there are waiting lists for organ transplants, vision care (like myself who is on a 3 month waiting list for the Illinois Eye Institute), there are waiting lists for surgeries here, for screenings and diagnostic tests, not to mention the waiting lists for the rape kits to be processed for the court cases nationwide. And let’s not forget the waiting lists for the DNA tests for criminal cases which are backlogged for over 6 months. Anyone who thinks this country doesn’t have waiting lists is fooling themselves.
Also, rationing of health care is going on every day in this country. Listen to Wendall Potter, who used to work for CIGNA, as he talks about decisions made every single day as to who would be “allowed” to get their medical care covered, regardless of the fact that those people had already paid their premiums! Tell us there is no rationing of care for those who had their coverage dropped by their insurance company even though they had never missed a payment and were only dropped because they got sick!
I pray to God that you never experience these things, Tenn., because then you would have to finally see for yourself, painfully, that rationing is a huge part of the American health care scene today!
I don’t think our government could do any worse than the current so-called health care insurance industry is doing right now. Our soldiers on the battlefield could tell you that the government does just fine running health care since the moment a medic reaches you, you have a 98% survival rate! Our seniors could tell you that Medicare works just great as they scream for no one to touch it! They love it! It works just great! It’s government run! Our veterans could tell you (as I could with my late husband having had Tricare coverage for many years as a 20 year veteran of the Navy!)that their government run health care doesn’t have a high rate of denial of care and doesn’t drop them if they get sick or refuse to cover them for pre-existing conditions! It works great! It’s government run!
The facts are just not on your side, Tenn.! Give it up! Your talk is nonsense!
Government run health care also has only a 3% admin. cost. Compared to 30% for the private sector. And if you allow all government run medical programs to negotiate best rates on all care and drugs, you will have the most cost effective system!
Go scare someone else, we who know the facts only shake our heads in wonderment at your lack of knowledge!
Melody, I’ve been hearing you people cry this for months now. I have never in my 58 years of life known anyone first hand, or even second or third hand that has experienced the difficulties you mention. While I am certain there are exceptions, I don’t think it is nearly as rampant as the left/libs want us to think. I think a lot of the “hysteria” concerning shortcomings of the Health Care System are a healthy dose of “Chicken Little”.
I pay for my health care coverage. I have always paid for my health care coverage. I have struggled at times and at times, have had lesser coverage at a lesser price, but I have NEVER experienced any of the difficulties you mention here. And while I have gone without a new car at times or some of the other luxuries or just niceties I wished to have, I knew it only took one little accident to cause me difficulties for a very long time. I recognized the importance of maintaining Health Care coverage and I always did whatever it took. I liked the security of knowing that if I, my wife or one of my children became ill, I could walk in the Hospital, present my insurance information and know I would have no difficulty or even delay getting the care we needed. Those things were VERY important to me and I sacrificed whatever I needed to to maintain coverage.
I don’t know what the regulations are where you live, but in Tennessee, if you become sick your insurance CAN NOT drop you unless you are considered “cured” for a determined length of time. And if you become ill in the future and it can be contributed to that illness, they have to cove it.
And even though I know it’s a “Conservative” talking point, it rings true. You state, “I don’t think our government could do any worse than the current so-called health care insurance industry is doing right now.” and I ask you to consider an organization with the compassion of the IRS and the efficiency of the Postal Service managing Health Care in the US.
I have in my 49 years of life known people, first hand, second hand and third hand that have experienced the same type of difficulties that Melody has experienced. Just because they are not in your realm of existence doesn’t mean there are not people out there suffering the vagaries of the health care system.
Your state has a remote medical program. That program was featured on the news. There are some real medical problems in your state, otherwise the remote medical program wouldn’t exist
You treat Melody with disdain and you preach to her that the difficulties she has experienced cannot possibly exist, solely because that hasn’t been your experience. Well broaden your horizons Tenn, there are millions of Melody’s out there.
The difficulties exist, TN, they do for her and for millions of other people, every single day.
That you do not see that from whatever throne you sit on is to your detriment.
@TN:
“I have never in my 58 years of life known anyone first hand, or even second or third hand that has experienced the difficulties you mention”.
Well, now you have. Her name is, “Melody.” That statement is a very naive one which shouldn’t have been dismissed. You need to read what she wrote, again. I’ve lived in several countries that have the kind of health care I feel we need here. In England you can choose to have private insurance, or not. That would be the same choices for you or me. I don’t get the problem. No one is taking anything away from you. We would have the choices, we would not be offered otherwise. Personally, I’ve known many people in the States that lack insurance, a few of them needed it badly.
Apparently, my name is still, Anonymous. (Anomaly)
Tenn. needs to listen to Wendall Potter (former exec. of CIGNA) tell of seeing over a thousand people at a county fair grounds being seen by doctors who had to set up in cattle stalls to give health care at a free clinic event. It moved him enough, after talking to many of those folks, to quit his job and join the other side in favor of the public option.
He tells of listening to health care insurance executives literally state that they didn’t care if people died from their denial of health insurance coverage. It disgusted him. It should disgust all of us. Tenn. should also have been listening to the doctor who testified in front of Congress that she knew that she was sending people to their death by denying them health insurance coverage and that she got raises for doing it. She was promoted faster whenever she denied care coverage because that money then went to the executives and their ever important “bottom line” which apparently doesn’t include human life in the equation.
Tenn. needs to do more research including tuning in to Countdown with Keith Olbermann to watch the free clinics being held in a number of cities and to listen to those people talk about why they are there. He should also talk to the folks at PNHP and NNOC, medical professionals organizations who can tell him first hand of the people they treat at free clinics because those people cannot afford health care insurance or have been denied because of pre-existing conditions or they just got sick so their coverage was dropped. He should talk to the doctor I went to talk to who runs a free clinic here in Chicago on the South Side. He has told of so many people who have nowhere else to go. He wishes he could do more.
Tenn. needs to do a lot more homework and open his eyes and more importantly, his heart.He is so, so off base!
Melody, Thank you for your advice. Pardon me if I find you unqualified to be handing out advice. At least, to me. Should I feel the need to seek out advice, I would certainly look elsewhere.
I related MY life experiences and what I understand about the situation. I understand you perceive things differently. That is your prerogative.
I will say this though. You guys keep telling me how no one can get care. But each of you speak of free clinics. Have we reached the point where free is not affordable enough?
Tenn. Free clinics are extremely limited in what they can do. Vision, dental are not available. Types of drugs available depend on what is donated. Supplies are always short. Staffing is based on volunteers so consistency is difficult. These doctors mostly make recommendations, referrals where they can, and give encouragement and try to catch the most serious illnesses before they kill someone or spread to others. They work under extremely difficult conditions. Your snideness is in thinking this is the kind of care Americans should have to settle for or that this is adequate for anyone. These doctors tell me that they feel like MASH units on the front lines of a battle that no one cares about. That is their description not mine. You sound just like Scrooge! Are there no workhouses, are there no prisons? Let them die and decrease the surplus population! You should be ashamed of yourself, Tenn.!
Something tells me you wouldn’t listen even if your mother
WAS the one chiding you! I gave you the facts. I notice you do not have any answer to the facts. Then again, people like you do not seem to be very familiar with facts.
Melody, What facts have you given me? You have given me a lecture which you are ill qualified to deliver.
You believe in and endeavor for an entitlement society. I believe in living responsibly and working for what I want. At least my ideology is my own. My life is my own. I don’t depend on you or anyone similar to you for anything.
That is just why your ideology fails everyone, including you. When this country stops pulling together to help each other and starts trying for individual “independence”, then we all fail. No one of us can stand up to corporate raiders or Wall Street tycoons or multi-billionaires by ourselves. There is a reason why the Gilded Age ended up with numerous anti-trust laws and why many people suffered during those times. You need to read your history. No man is an island. This boast you make of not needing anyone is false. You are at greatest risk when you think you can go it alone. None of us can. Please rethink. I’m not talking about an entitlement society. I’m talking about a society that knows that we all succeed when we all help take care of each other and look out for each other. That is truly the American way.
Melody, our only hope as a society is that people like TN will be marginalized in the same way that they have marginalized everyone but themselves. They accept no facts and will recognize no authority other than their own. They are careless about where they get the information that forms their ideas. They take the factual information and the experiences that others offer and attempt to disprove them with right-wing propaganda web sites, email lore and urban legends.
I do not include all the people I disagree with in this group. In fact, TN is the only regular visitor here whom I consider to be among them. Some here have managed to state their arguments and opinions quite well without employing deflection tactics. They’ve done it without pointing out their opponents’ grammatical errors or incessantly calling them by a particular name or projecting their own proclivities onto others or telling people they are irrational and biased and stupid. Those people realize that when you do petty things like that, you do nothing to further discourse. They probably also recognize the toxic nature of such people.
Some people wish to bring seasoning to the stew. Others are only interested in stirring the pot.
Frances, well said. Now if only you can drop your bias and hypocrisy and identify those same traits in yourself and some of those who share you skewed viewpoints.
The “toxic nature” if you will, of such people is that they can’t be swayed by the Pollyanna, idealistic and UNrealistic vision of society that maligns the radical left and radical liberalism.
Do you notice Tenn.’s use of words here. Pollyanna, idealistic? He actually is admitting that our ideas are correct and on the side of what is good for our country! If one remembers the film Pollyanna, we remember that she inspired all of those around her! And as for Idealism, I would much rather have that on my side and try reaching for the stars! I will get much further than I would being pessimistic and a grouch! Thanks for showing that you do truly believe in our side, Tenn.!
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Janine Wallace, Frances Davey. Frances Davey said: RT @mariopiperni: Joe Lieberman – The Dancer. http://twurl.nl/4wfa81 [...]
Sen. Lieberman doesn’t sound very well-informed to me.
Lieberman’s informed. It’s only that he, like many others, benefit from making the truth of any matter difficult to find, or blurring the line between facts and opinion. TPM’s audience is fairly well informed and thoughtful, but if this exchange happened between on a major network, some in the audience might conclude TPM’s assertion was an opinion.
The only thing I can think of when I hear Lieberman talk is Woody Allen. Just can’t get past that.
While his choice of words may have been poor, and his response to the line of questioning even poorer, Lieberman is certainly not the only Senator who has stated he is against a Public Option. And several of those are Democratic Senators as well.
And in fairness to Lieberman, I’m not aware of any candidate promising a complete overhaul of this Country’s Health Care System. And I think that is were this discussion goes off on divergent paths.
Most of us are aware something needs to be done about Health Care, the delivery and the costs. But I think most of us are still of the opinion we do not want the Single Payer System Obama, Frank and company are shooting for. Most of us are not in favor of heavy Government intrusion into the Health Care System.
Dear Joe,
I know you and Fact are not well acquainted but your penchant for revisionist history and jellyfish attachment to Republican talking points really doesn’t look good on you.
@Tennessean
it’s not heavy government intrusion in the health care system, it is the inclusion of a public choice. Choice being the operative word
janine, I disagree. And both Obama and Frank have stated their goal is a single payer system and this effort is viewed by many as the only way to eventually foist it on the public.
@Tennessean
Disagree all you want but the reality is that a public choice inclusion is just a choice people can choose or not choose. A single payer system would mean that the government takes over all hospitals and then you would have your socialism that you fear. No one is contemplating that
janine, Is this an example of “…not heavy government intrusion…”
“Dodd, DeLauro to Offer Emergency H1N1 Sick Days Bill
Two leading members of Congress on the issue of employee leave will team up to write a bill that would provide paid time off for workers who contract the H1N1 flu.”
http://www.workforce.com/section/00/article/26/78/75.php
First, only an idiot would not recognize the potential for abuse. But what just irritates the crap out of me is that these inept idiots think they have to legislate when I should stay home sick and when I should not.
How can you blame a segment of Americans for feeling Government is getting completely out of hand?
janine, so are you saying you do not believe Obama and Frank when they state their objective is a single payer system and the only way to achieve it is through first instituting the public option?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-bY92mcOdk
How can one have a single payer system when states can opt out ? Let’s see what is legislated and then dissect what is voted on.
On Lieberman,we all now know the conflict of interests involved here and any contribution from Lieberman is nullified by his wife being pecuniarily involved in the insurance business.
@Jovial,
exactly, let us see what is legislated.
@Tennessean
Members of Congress propose any manner of bills TN, not all are passed
So, you give no credence to the statements by Obama, Frank and others that they ultimately want to move the country to a Single Payer system. And the easiest way to do that is to start with the Public Option.
@TN
this is what I believe may be contemplated by Obama, Frank etc.
Single-payer systems may contract for healthcare services from private organizations (as is the case in Canada) or may own and employ healthcare resources and personnel (as is the case in the United Kingdom).
The term single-payer thus only describes the funding mechanism—referring to health care being paid for by a single public body from a single fund—and does not specify the type of delivery. Although the fund holder is usually the government, some forms of single-payer employ a public-private system.
I believe what is contemplated, which may never pass, is a public-private system.
Frank has stated he favors the “Scandinavian” System.
http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA555_Sweden_Health_Care.html
“For much of the 20th century, Sweden had a single-payer system of health care in which the government paid almost all health care costs. Like other nations with a single-payer system, Sweden has had to deal with the problem of ever-growing health care expenses causing a strain on government budgets. It has dealt with this problem by rationing health care – instituting waiting lists for medical appointments and surgery.”
Tenn., There are waiting lists now right here in the U.S. as evidenced by people who actually die in waiting rooms in ER’s across the country. Also there are waiting lists for organ transplants, vision care (like myself who is on a 3 month waiting list for the Illinois Eye Institute), there are waiting lists for surgeries here, for screenings and diagnostic tests, not to mention the waiting lists for the rape kits to be processed for the court cases nationwide. And let’s not forget the waiting lists for the DNA tests for criminal cases which are backlogged for over 6 months. Anyone who thinks this country doesn’t have waiting lists is fooling themselves.
Also, rationing of health care is going on every day in this country. Listen to Wendall Potter, who used to work for CIGNA, as he talks about decisions made every single day as to who would be “allowed” to get their medical care covered, regardless of the fact that those people had already paid their premiums! Tell us there is no rationing of care for those who had their coverage dropped by their insurance company even though they had never missed a payment and were only dropped because they got sick!
I pray to God that you never experience these things, Tenn., because then you would have to finally see for yourself, painfully, that rationing is a huge part of the American health care scene today!
I don’t think our government could do any worse than the current so-called health care insurance industry is doing right now. Our soldiers on the battlefield could tell you that the government does just fine running health care since the moment a medic reaches you, you have a 98% survival rate! Our seniors could tell you that Medicare works just great as they scream for no one to touch it! They love it! It works just great! It’s government run! Our veterans could tell you (as I could with my late husband having had Tricare coverage for many years as a 20 year veteran of the Navy!)that their government run health care doesn’t have a high rate of denial of care and doesn’t drop them if they get sick or refuse to cover them for pre-existing conditions! It works great! It’s government run!
The facts are just not on your side, Tenn.! Give it up! Your talk is nonsense!
Government run health care also has only a 3% admin. cost. Compared to 30% for the private sector. And if you allow all government run medical programs to negotiate best rates on all care and drugs, you will have the most cost effective system!
Go scare someone else, we who know the facts only shake our heads in wonderment at your lack of knowledge!
Melody, I’ve been hearing you people cry this for months now. I have never in my 58 years of life known anyone first hand, or even second or third hand that has experienced the difficulties you mention. While I am certain there are exceptions, I don’t think it is nearly as rampant as the left/libs want us to think. I think a lot of the “hysteria” concerning shortcomings of the Health Care System are a healthy dose of “Chicken Little”.
I pay for my health care coverage. I have always paid for my health care coverage. I have struggled at times and at times, have had lesser coverage at a lesser price, but I have NEVER experienced any of the difficulties you mention here. And while I have gone without a new car at times or some of the other luxuries or just niceties I wished to have, I knew it only took one little accident to cause me difficulties for a very long time. I recognized the importance of maintaining Health Care coverage and I always did whatever it took. I liked the security of knowing that if I, my wife or one of my children became ill, I could walk in the Hospital, present my insurance information and know I would have no difficulty or even delay getting the care we needed. Those things were VERY important to me and I sacrificed whatever I needed to to maintain coverage.
I don’t know what the regulations are where you live, but in Tennessee, if you become sick your insurance CAN NOT drop you unless you are considered “cured” for a determined length of time. And if you become ill in the future and it can be contributed to that illness, they have to cove it.
And even though I know it’s a “Conservative” talking point, it rings true. You state, “I don’t think our government could do any worse than the current so-called health care insurance industry is doing right now.” and I ask you to consider an organization with the compassion of the IRS and the efficiency of the Postal Service managing Health Care in the US.
@Tennessean
I have in my 49 years of life known people, first hand, second hand and third hand that have experienced the same type of difficulties that Melody has experienced. Just because they are not in your realm of existence doesn’t mean there are not people out there suffering the vagaries of the health care system.
Your state has a remote medical program. That program was featured on the news. There are some real medical problems in your state, otherwise the remote medical program wouldn’t exist
You treat Melody with disdain and you preach to her that the difficulties she has experienced cannot possibly exist, solely because that hasn’t been your experience. Well broaden your horizons Tenn, there are millions of Melody’s out there.
The difficulties exist, TN, they do for her and for millions of other people, every single day.
That you do not see that from whatever throne you sit on is to your detriment.
@TN:
“I have never in my 58 years of life known anyone first hand, or even second or third hand that has experienced the difficulties you mention”.
Well, now you have. Her name is, “Melody.” That statement is a very naive one which shouldn’t have been dismissed. You need to read what she wrote, again. I’ve lived in several countries that have the kind of health care I feel we need here. In England you can choose to have private insurance, or not. That would be the same choices for you or me. I don’t get the problem. No one is taking anything away from you. We would have the choices, we would not be offered otherwise. Personally, I’ve known many people in the States that lack insurance, a few of them needed it badly.
Apparently, my name is still, Anonymous. (Anomaly)
Tenn. needs to listen to Wendall Potter (former exec. of CIGNA) tell of seeing over a thousand people at a county fair grounds being seen by doctors who had to set up in cattle stalls to give health care at a free clinic event. It moved him enough, after talking to many of those folks, to quit his job and join the other side in favor of the public option.
He tells of listening to health care insurance executives literally state that they didn’t care if people died from their denial of health insurance coverage. It disgusted him. It should disgust all of us. Tenn. should also have been listening to the doctor who testified in front of Congress that she knew that she was sending people to their death by denying them health insurance coverage and that she got raises for doing it. She was promoted faster whenever she denied care coverage because that money then went to the executives and their ever important “bottom line” which apparently doesn’t include human life in the equation.
Tenn. needs to do more research including tuning in to Countdown with Keith Olbermann to watch the free clinics being held in a number of cities and to listen to those people talk about why they are there. He should also talk to the folks at PNHP and NNOC, medical professionals organizations who can tell him first hand of the people they treat at free clinics because those people cannot afford health care insurance or have been denied because of pre-existing conditions or they just got sick so their coverage was dropped. He should talk to the doctor I went to talk to who runs a free clinic here in Chicago on the South Side. He has told of so many people who have nowhere else to go. He wishes he could do more.
Tenn. needs to do a lot more homework and open his eyes and more importantly, his heart.He is so, so off base!
Melody, Thank you for your advice. Pardon me if I find you unqualified to be handing out advice. At least, to me. Should I feel the need to seek out advice, I would certainly look elsewhere.
I related MY life experiences and what I understand about the situation. I understand you perceive things differently. That is your prerogative.
I will say this though. You guys keep telling me how no one can get care. But each of you speak of free clinics. Have we reached the point where free is not affordable enough?
Melody, TN needs to listen to a therapist.
Tenn. Free clinics are extremely limited in what they can do. Vision, dental are not available. Types of drugs available depend on what is donated. Supplies are always short. Staffing is based on volunteers so consistency is difficult. These doctors mostly make recommendations, referrals where they can, and give encouragement and try to catch the most serious illnesses before they kill someone or spread to others. They work under extremely difficult conditions. Your snideness is in thinking this is the kind of care Americans should have to settle for or that this is adequate for anyone. These doctors tell me that they feel like MASH units on the front lines of a battle that no one cares about. That is their description not mine. You sound just like Scrooge! Are there no workhouses, are there no prisons? Let them die and decrease the surplus population! You should be ashamed of yourself, Tenn.!
Melody, and your snideness [sic] is in erroneously believing you are capable of divining my thinking.
And you aren’t my mommy either so please, chide someone else.
Something tells me you wouldn’t listen even if your mother
WAS the one chiding you! I gave you the facts. I notice you do not have any answer to the facts. Then again, people like you do not seem to be very familiar with facts.
When you can start dealing in facts and not on your made up ideology then we might take you more seriously.
Melody, What facts have you given me? You have given me a lecture which you are ill qualified to deliver.
You believe in and endeavor for an entitlement society. I believe in living responsibly and working for what I want. At least my ideology is my own. My life is my own. I don’t depend on you or anyone similar to you for anything.
Not surprising we would find little to agree on.
That is just why your ideology fails everyone, including you. When this country stops pulling together to help each other and starts trying for individual “independence”, then we all fail. No one of us can stand up to corporate raiders or Wall Street tycoons or multi-billionaires by ourselves. There is a reason why the Gilded Age ended up with numerous anti-trust laws and why many people suffered during those times. You need to read your history. No man is an island. This boast you make of not needing anyone is false. You are at greatest risk when you think you can go it alone. None of us can. Please rethink. I’m not talking about an entitlement society. I’m talking about a society that knows that we all succeed when we all help take care of each other and look out for each other. That is truly the American way.
Melody, our only hope as a society is that people like TN will be marginalized in the same way that they have marginalized everyone but themselves. They accept no facts and will recognize no authority other than their own. They are careless about where they get the information that forms their ideas. They take the factual information and the experiences that others offer and attempt to disprove them with right-wing propaganda web sites, email lore and urban legends.
I do not include all the people I disagree with in this group. In fact, TN is the only regular visitor here whom I consider to be among them. Some here have managed to state their arguments and opinions quite well without employing deflection tactics. They’ve done it without pointing out their opponents’ grammatical errors or incessantly calling them by a particular name or projecting their own proclivities onto others or telling people they are irrational and biased and stupid. Those people realize that when you do petty things like that, you do nothing to further discourse. They probably also recognize the toxic nature of such people.
Some people wish to bring seasoning to the stew. Others are only interested in stirring the pot.
Frances, well said. Now if only you can drop your bias and hypocrisy and identify those same traits in yourself and some of those who share you skewed viewpoints.
The “toxic nature” if you will, of such people is that they can’t be swayed by the Pollyanna, idealistic and UNrealistic vision of society that maligns the radical left and radical liberalism.
Melody, I forgot to mention that they are also graduates of the PeeWee Herman School of Debate.
Do you notice Tenn.’s use of words here. Pollyanna, idealistic? He actually is admitting that our ideas are correct and on the side of what is good for our country! If one remembers the film Pollyanna, we remember that she inspired all of those around her! And as for Idealism, I would much rather have that on my side and try reaching for the stars! I will get much further than I would being pessimistic and a grouch! Thanks for showing that you do truly believe in our side, Tenn.!