Photo credit: LA Times
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The crazies are winning this fight.
More than a dozen people packing pistols on their hips strolled down the Hermosa Beach strand Saturday, picking up garbage and distributing fliers about the rights of gun owners.
The event was part of a burgeoning and controversial “open carry” movement nationwide promoting the right to carry guns in public. Although carrying a concealed weapon is illegal without a permit, California allows people to openly carry guns in many areas as long as they are unloaded, though they can keep ammunition with them.
Members of South Bay Open Carry, which organized the beach cleanup, said they hope such events will dispel misgivings about gun owners and make carrying a handgun in public more acceptable. Organizers said they turned the event into a cleanup to demonstrate that they are contributing to the community.
“Just because somebody is carrying a gun doesn’t mean that they’re a criminal,” said Scott Brownlie, a 25-year-old firefighter who stood outside Peet’s Coffee & Tea with an unloaded Colt M-4 Carbine slung across his back. “If a lot of people were allowed to carry more … there would be a lot less crime.”
Forgive me if I’m somewhat skeptical about these people’s intent. What we’re looking at here has less to do with battling crime and more to do with, as a reader aptly puts it, the steel dick syndrome. Does anyone seriously believe that the guy with the Colt Carbine cares about anything other than how wonderfully macho he appears parading about with his shiny toy slung across his back?
From a San Diego Union-Tribune editorial:
It is just not acceptable to have people in modern-day California wandering around while openly packing pistols as if it were the Wild West.
And it’s not just families and coffee-shop patrons who are troubled by the displays. The California Police Chiefs Association is among the supporters of the bill.
“Open carry is not just a threat to public safety, it’s a threat to officers,” [said] Emeryville Police Chief Ken James.
The truth is that there are no reasonable gun control laws which could ever satisfy these people. They want it all. To think that anyone believes that walking into a McDonalds with your child and finding half the customers packing heat is in any way a sign of a smart, forward thinking society is frighteningly ignorant.
Blooming idiots, the entire lot. Really.
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I’m a Lifetime member of the NRA, and agree completely with your post. Open-carry advocates carry what we call “pee-pee guns”. Just like the schmucks who drive Hummers (pee-pee trucks). In their idolized vision of the rugged individual, particularly in the Old West, they can’t seem to remember that those old timers had enough sense to prohibit the carrying of guns into bars. They definitely knew that guns and alcohol don’t mix. The NRA today, however, supports carrying guns into bars. They’ve become unhinged.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but I always suggest to open-carry advocates that when they buy shotguns, please make sure before their purchase that their big toe can fit into the trigger guard.
Crazy never sleeps.
I lived in two countries, while serving in the military, that totally banned the ownership of handguns by private citizens, they were reserved for use by the police and military only. I was an avid hunter back then and was allowed, in both countries, to possess weapons that were specifically designed for that purpose. I was happy with this arrangement and felt that I had ample rights under the law and my hunting weapons could be used to protect my home. If I were a home invader I would much prefer to enter an abode that was protected by a man with a pistol as opposed to one that was being defended by a man with a 12 gauge shotgun.
My home state of Tennessee, against the desires of the majority of residents, recently joined the wild west mania that is sweeping the country by passing legislation that allows citizens with carry permits to take their weapons into bars and state parks. The link I have provided below I believe illustrates the danger of such stupid legislation. A father in a park, with a carry permit, pulled a gun on his son’s little league coach because the boy wasn’t being given enough play time.
http://www.tennessean.com/article/20100616/NEWS02/6160353
Unfortunately, civilians living in the state of California cannot readily obtain permits allowing them to legally carry concealed deadly weapons. Consequently, many civilians must carry openly, if they do not wish to violate state law.
I believe that charliesommers has confused “anecdote” with “data”. A single recorded event, especially one that he has described inaccurately, does not validate the expressed concerns of civilian disarmament advocates.
Dimensio … There have been numerous occurrences, “anecdotes if you prefer that wording” involving wrongful use of hand guns by permit holders in Tennessee and other states.
How was my description of the event I cited inaccurate? Here is the exact wording that was used in the newspaper article;
“Long recounted an incident in Bartlett, Tenn., on June 5 in which a man who had a permit to carry a handgun pulled the gun on his 10-year-old son’s little league coach during an argument about how much playing time the boy was getting. Witnesses wrestled the man to the ground.”
It’s anecdotal when it does not conform with your views. Otherwise it’s data.
“Dimensio … There have been numerous occurrences, “anecdotes if you prefer that wording” involving wrongful use of hand guns by permit holders in Tennessee and other states.”
The plural of anecdote is not “data”.
“Long recounted an incident in Bartlett, Tenn., on June 5 in which a man who had a permit to carry a handgun pulled the gun on his 10-year-old son’s little league coach during an argument about how much playing time the boy was getting. Witnesses wrestled the man to the ground.”
You claimed that this incident occurred in a “park”, yet no indication of such is stated within the article.
LOL Dimensio … Did you not notice that the “anectdote” appeared in a column that expressly questioned the wisdom of allowing guns in parks?
My little league days are long over but I recall that all games were played in what was called a “ball park” although this is absolutely immaterial as the occurrence would have been just as serious had it happened on a schoolyard, a college campus, a Walmart or Sears parking lot, on a beach or soccer field, etc., etc., etc.
Again the law is the law and if we cannot change the laws, then what?
Mario and when did you start believing that this is is “in any way a sign of a smart, forward thinking society is frighteningly ignorant”
This is not a forward thinking society, we all know that. Religion and money controls it all. It is sickening. And when you combine both you get priests and ministers getting our money from under their robes. Jeez, we are really a screwed up society.
Some of us try to be liberal but to a certain degree and it does not work for everything. As in carrying guns. It is a right but our congress and senators do not have the B_ _ ls to fix this.
PerryE, what, specifically, do you believe needs to be “fixed”?
charliesommers, baseball games sometimes occur on private property, where government regulation regarding the carrying of concealed weapons are not applicable.
Moreover, individual anecdotes do not logically constitute a data set. That a single individual committed aggravated assault does not logically justify abridging the rights of all citizens.
Here are a few more “anecdotes” on the subject of carrying concealed weapons.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-sugarmann/murders-by-concealed-hand_b_632278.html
In my almost 70 years I have never seen a Little League game played on private property, not here nor in any of the countries in which I served.
Mr. Sugarmann is relying upon raw data with no statistical analysis and thus with no valid context from which to derive conclusions. Moreover, Mr. Sugarmann has openly admitted to attempting to rely upon “confusion” amongst the public as a means of attaining support for wholly unreasonable restrictions upon civilian firearms ownership. Due to Mr. Sugarmann’s admitted reliance upon dishonest tactics, he is not a credible source of information.
Dimensio, I’m curious. Are you ok with people walking around in public with rifles strapped to their backs?
Until and unless demonstrable harm results from not prohibiting such action, Everin, I am able to conceive of no possible rational justification for lawfully prohibiting such action.
The man with the rifle strapped to his back was not carrying it for protection but because he thought it made him look macho. How macho will he look when two or three gang members grab his weapon, which is placed too poorly to be of any actual use in self defense, and have themselves a nifty toy to use in furthering their societal aims?
” How macho will he look when two or three gang members grab his weapon, which is placed too poorly to be of any actual use in self defense, and have themselves a nifty toy to use in furthering their societal aims?”
With what frequency do such incidents occur in states where the openly displayed carrying of rifles is not prohibited?
I’m a complete gun nut, I love them and think most gun laws
are stupid but…..I see no advantage in open carry, I just
dont see the point — to me it just lets the bad guys know who
they need to shoot first.
However concealed carry permits I believe should be the law
of the land and relatively easy to get.
I might well change my oppinion on this if all the bad guys
would just go away but I dont think thats going to happen.
Oh yeah one other thought —- most gang members already have
guns so they really dont need to as someone said “grab his”.
Wow, Mario, your point was proven splendidly in some of these comments alone.
Greg, gangs are all about power, intimidation, and their family like group. Mess with one member, and they all come after you. If you show your force of weaponry, even without just cause, that to active gang members is an act of aggression anyway. You would be on their home territory showing off the big bad gun macho style. Yes, gangs already have guns, don’t kid yourself to think that they won’t want yours. If one must carry weapons in public you are ASKING for a fight.
The person carrying their weapons in public because the law finally allows, is the place, business I will not establish. There is a very real element of fear, and intimidation created by people carrying their weapons. Why should anyone that wants to show their guns, expect us to trust them?? We know noting about them. They are strangers to us. They are walking time b0mbs, and messing with people’s minds and sence of safety among the public.
There is a growing sence with proof, in the laws changing, of the world gone mad. Just in some of these comments alone, it appears there is no evidence that will ever be good enough. Nothing is going to stop them from trying to scare the hell out of everyone.
This country is going to hell!
TOO MUCH LAW AND TOTAL TOTAL LACK OF ORDER!
Americans need to rise up for their rights like in the 60s!
PerryE, This country is not going to hell. This “World” is hell, for there is soo much pain and suffering, yet, even now, we can still find joy, peace, love, blessings in just one act of hope. Don’t give up on people. Even among the crazy there is still good.
I would be scared if I saw someone at my local coffee shop wearing an assault rifle.. I’d wonder if he was going to start shooting up the place. This is just too much
What do you think will happen if in a crowded area a loud noise occurs and one of these Macho men responds by pulling his weapon to finally get a chance to be a hero and another same thinking hero sees this guy with a drawn gun and starts to shoot,then the cops come and see 2 gunman and they start to shoot.This sounds like a Chaplin film.ROTS OF LUCK!!!
Morton … You are a wise man … I hope nothing like that happens but the chances are excellent, and are even better the more “heat packing” he-men we let roam our streets, bars and parks.
Janet, my dear Janet;
I said I dont agree with open carry, read my post again.
Concelled carry is another issue and has saved many lives,
statistics on this are very easy to look up and are undeniable
I dont need to defend it, it defends itself.
My Son has a concealed carry permit because He’s a bank Manager
but I cant get one cause I cant show just cause.
When a weapon is concealed it cant be considered “macho” cause
nobody can see it and if your smart you dont tell anybody you
have it.
If a bad guy walks into a store and starts shooting people it
would be nice if one or two of the stores paterains were packing
heat so they might have the chance to blow the guys head off
rather then just stand there waiting for thier turn to get shot.
Greg, I did get that part of your post. I’m not arguing on show of weapons like the photo above, I understand you are against that, and I agree. I was talking about the gang mention, and why having weapons out in display, even though gang members have their own guns would still want those whose guns are shown in open, and the show of force would be an intimidation. That is all. We agree more then we disagree. I have no problem with people wanting their guns for self protection, and of course people have always hunted for game, fowl, etc. It’s the way it is. It’s the machine guns, military style, I have a problem with in the hands of average citizens. In open display or not.
Janet,
Just a F.Y.I. and I really mean this with all due respect,
Machine guns are in all practical terms illegal and have been
since 1934, yes a person can own one after obtaining a special
licence and paying a hefty tax but few people do so because they
are impractical except for those used during war— a machine
gun with 30 round clip will fire full bore for about 10 seconds.
The rifle in the picture is a semi-automatic which means each
time you pull the trigger it shots one bullet, so if you can pull
the trigger really fast you can indeed do whats referred to as
“spray and pray”. The problem is perception when it comes to these
kinds of rifles because many hunting rifle are semi-automatics.
AR-15 is a military looking gun, a semi-automatic, will except
a 30 round clip and shoots a 223 rounds its illegal to buy in
my state but a “Mini 14″ is legal here — and a Mini 14 is a
semi-automatic, which can except a 30 round clip and shoots the
same 223 round, the difference is the Mini 14 has a nice looking
wood stock and lets say looks “civil”—- if the man in the picture
would have had a Mini 14 strapped across his back you wouldn’t have
been so shocked and probly wouldn’t have used the word Military.
Thats why we call the California assault weapons ban silly because
all they did was outlaw guns which looked evil and not outlaw
guns which performed as well or better because they looked nice.
Hence the term “the ugly gun ban”.
one last thing,,, Diane Feinstein has openly stated that she
carries a 38 ca. handgun in her purse at all times and shes a major
anti gun advocite….. hypocrite.
Ah, you got me there, Greg. Military was the wrong word to use, my apologies. Assault weapons in the hands of citizens, still crazy to me. Diane Feinstein is indeed a hypocrite, for many reasons. She is suppose to be Democrat but I rarely see that in her. I wouldn’t mind it at all if we could replace her with another Democrat that would actually side with Democrats.
Janet,
First of all why are you apologizing? especially to me,
I’m a tad bit of a jerk and your stating your views in
a intelligent and meaningful fashion.
You must always keep in mind that I get a little jumpy
when comes to the second amendment subject and I would like
to thank you for not yelling at me, some guy called me
a $%^$%%^$@# the other day on this site because I said
I owned two guns.
Greg, thank you. I have noticed. I’m just trying to keep things civil. Is there not enough anxiety in this world? If you want to be a jerk, that’s ok, I just don’t always play… Winks…
Peace