The Insanity of Wayne LaPierre

Wayne Lapierre's America - NRA   :   http://mariopiperni.com/

Wayne Lapierre’s words speak for themselves.

“When the next terrorist attack comes, the Obama administration won’t accept responsibility. Instead, it will do what it does every time: blame a scapegoat and count on Obama’s “mainstream” media enablers to go along.”

“After Hurricane Sandy, we saw the hellish world that the gun prohibitionists see as their utopia. Looters ran wild in south Brooklyn. There was no food, water or electricity. And if you wanted to walk several miles to get supplies, you better get back before dark, or you might not get home at all.”

“President Obama is leading this country to financial ruin, borrowing over a trillion dollars a year for phony “stimulus” spending and other payoffs for his political cronies. Nobody knows if or when the fiscal collapse will come, but if the country is broke, there likely won’t be enough money to pay for police protection. And the American people know it.”

“Hurricanes. Tornadoes. Riots. Terrorists. Gangs. Lone criminals. These are perils we are sure to face—not just maybe. It’s not paranoia to buy a gun. It’s survival. It’s responsible behavior, and it’s time we encourage law-abiding Americans to do just that.”

and…

“We will not surrender. We will not appease. We will buy more guns than ever. We will use them for sport and lawful self-defense more than ever. We will grow the NRA more than ever. And we will be prouder than ever to be freedom-loving NRA patriots. And with your help, we will ensure that the Second Amendment remains America’s First Freedom.”

And on it goes. If ever there was just cause for greater gun control legislation, the growing madness of Wayne LaPierre and the NRA is that reason.

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Comments

  1. cathy says:

    OMG! It sounds like a manifesto from a crazy person.

  2. John T. says:

    It is a manifesto from a crazy person. To think that Wayne Lapierre has influence over any number of people is a frightening thought.

  3. JC in CT says:

    In my view, anyone who is still a member of the NRA completely endorses these and all other utterances from Mr. LaPierre, in addition to having much blood on their hands.

  4. alwaysoccupy says:

    So this is the doctrine of fear that we will be hearing about to counter Obama’s war on unsafe weapons that create mass murders. If Republicans don’t decry this type of fear mongering,they will pay later at the polls.

    Anybody that listens to this crazy person is in my opinion feeble in the head. NRA members should not encourage membership in the NRA but rather close their accounts. They can still have access to firing ranges and do what responsible gun owners do. Practice for reasons of necessity and not fear.

  5. John Kennedy says:

    20% of all the guns used in criminal acts in Chicago come from a single gun store just outside the city. Let that sink in for a moment.

  6. GregD says:

    It’s my duty to protect myself and my family from harm, Ive had to do so in the past using a weapon which more then likely is one which is on the ban list. Less then one percent of all gun crimes are committed with the weapons which this President would like to see banned — easy to look up statistic.
    If I call 911 it takes around 30 minutes for a Sheriff to get to my house and asking the bad guy who’s trying to steal my car or steal my stuff to please put down his gun and wait for the cop’s to show up just doesn’t seem like a viable strategy. I’m more or less a Liberal and I like Obama but what bugs me is the absolute which I’m confronted
    with no matter what the topic, a person is either all in or all out and there seems to be no wiggle room.
    Gun Control doesn’t work and never has but I suppose it makes paranoid people feel warm and fuzzy.

  7. @GregD.

    You write:
    what bugs me is the absolute which I’m confronted with no matter what the topic, a person is either all in or all out and there seems to be no wiggle room.”

    followed by:
    “Gun Control doesn’t work and never has …”

    Sounds like you’re pretty much “all in” and “absolute” on gun control of any kind. Does that bug you much? Does it sooth your paranoia and make you “feel warm and fuzzy” in any way?

    And, BTW, how is comprehensive background checks for everyone going to take your guns away unless there are serious reasons as to why you shouldn’t be owning a gun to begin with?

    As much as you wish to ignore the data, Greg, reasonable gun control does work. It works in Canada. It works in the U.K. It works in Japan. It works in every civilized country where rational people are willing to look at the numbers and do what’s right.

  8. Greg you might want to check your state laws — defending the theft of your car with a gun will quite probably land you in jail.

  9. Carol says:

    I’m breathlessly awaiting the first A-rated Senator who finally steps up to cancel his long-held NRA membership and disclaim Wayne’s Wonderful World of Wacky Pandering Paranoia…anyone care to lay a bet?
    He’s turned into the gun safety advocates’ wet dream…the gift that keeps on giving for anyone willing to have a reasonable and rational conversation about protecting our communities and our citizenry.

    So, (John) It turns out my bright, clever, funny, accomplished farrier (he trims a mean horse hoof!)…a respectful and reliable young man with an attractive young wife and two young children, spends his weekends not engaged in quality time with his family but rather, immersed in survivalist literature…building food storage bunkers around his property, insisting his wife learn to hand sew animal skins, stockpiling ammo for his rifle and handguns….preparing for the apocalypse….or for China to invade…or for the police state…whatever his mind can imagine.
    I’m both perplexed and saddened…and I will continue to debate with him the wisdom of his “beliefs” and the fearful legacy he’s teaching his children. Regrettably, this time he’s not pranking me…and I look forward to perusing the literature he insists on sharing with me next month. This ought to be interesting. I’ve gone into savior mode…(which leads my distracted mind to the once up-and-coming Rubio, who’s now selling Marco water bottles online….it’s the only way he’s going to survive his “one chance to make a first impression” fail.)

  10. Carol says:

    DIANA…Will you take $9?

    As I watched the President propose this minimum wage increase, I was reminded of the promise I made to help your campaign for the $15 initiative…my apologies for having filed it away in the deep recesses…and, I’m curious for your response. I see there was already a petition at We, the People for a raise….

  11. GregD says:

    Mario the fact that gun control has never worked in this country is not what I meant by absolutes.
    Japan’s conviction rate is in the 90% range so if your a Japanese citizen and your accused of a crime your
    going to jail.
    I’m thinking that you and I grew up in different environments, I won’t presume to know where you were brought up but Ive lived in the same area for almost 60 years and the idea of not owning a efficient weapon is viewed as just plain stupid around here, and because of that our crime rate is low, yes I can shoot a person who is stealing my
    car and would not hesitate to do so and no I wouldn’t go to jail for it, needless to say not to many cars get stolen around here because of this.
    Bad guys will always have all the guns they want and there’s nothing that can be done about that,,,nothing!!
    And even though I respect your commitment to help make the world a safer place It’s a pipe dream…
    Why not allow each county to enact it’s own gun laws? then see which county have less crime.
    I will never agree to any gun control except back ground checks and you will fight for what you believe in with honor and pride, and even though you nor your readers have not shown me any disrespect so far “tnx” I will protect
    my right to own any rifle I choose. Google ‘lives saved with guns’ and read the dozens of people daily who have saved there lives using guns. P.S. Countys which allow concealed carry have lower crime rate by far then those that don’t and that’s a absolute.

  12. Steve says:

    Sounds like Mr. LaPierre has been watching too many disaster movies.

  13. Greg – Google gun laws in Australia — and be sure to read articles by legitimate news organizations, not blogs.

    I recall my cousin posting a screed about a young woman at a bus stop in Texas whose purse had been snatched – totally untrue.

    And I’ll put your number of lives saved vs up against the number of lives lost any day. We’ve already lost more than 1000 since Sandy Hook. I’m guessing the number of lives saved during that period is far, far less.

    There is absolutely no reason a complete background check (redone at minimum every two-three years) is done and it should be a comprehensive search and not a cursory one that is done in a matter of a few minutes. A good portion of court records in this country are even on line yet. The rural counties don’t have the money to make them available, so you can bet the background checks that are relying on electronics are not reliable.

    There needs to be a waiting period that provides a cooling off period (as well as the time to do a proper background check) for someone who is walks in wanting a gun for whatever emotional response they want it for.

    If you do a little bit of research, you’ll find that if there is a gun in the home, women who live there are 12 times more likely to end up dead from a gunshot.

    There is a difference between rural and urban and you cannot have a one size fits all approach that everyone seems to think there must be. It doesn’t help when SOTUS doesn’t allow cities to ban hand guns.

    Guns for hunting game are not a problem. Guns for hunting people are quite another issue.

    No one outside of our military needs an AR-15, et al. or any hand gun with that capability.

    If people want to play with those guns, then they need to be kept at a gun range so you can play with them there (and under heavy protection).

    If you want to purchase a gun, you should also be required to by trigger locks or a gun safe for it/them.

    Had Lanza’s mother stored her guns in a safe with only her knowing the combination, she and all the others would still be alive.

    There is no excuse for not taking some common sense approaches to both getting a gun and keeping it away from those who shouldn’t have access to one.

    You can keep your gun under your mattress at night, but when you wake up in the a.m. you need to lock it up so the grandkids can’t get to it.

  14. My edit didn’t make it …

    I added –

    I’m guessing, Greg, you are probably a responsible gun owner. But I also know there are people out there who need some direction. Otherwise we wouldn’t need warning labels on things like hair dryers to caution users about not using them while sitting in the tub.

    I’m sure there are plenty of parents out there who regret not buying a trigger lock or a gun safe. One could only hope forcing them to buy one when they purchase a gun (or show proof they already own one) would give them the hint they need to use it.

  15. Carol, no problem. I’m up at 4 this morning so have a bit to time to catch up.

    Nope, $9 is not enough. That’s $18,720 a year. And while that is above poverty level, it’s still not enough to pay the rent, buy the groceries, pay for health insurance (which could be 1/4 to 1/3 of that amount). By the time to take state, federal, sales tax, you’re going to cutting that down to close to half of that amount.

    Wages have been stagnant for 30 plus years for the worker while CEO’s paychecks have grown in the 400 per cent or more range (much of which is hidden in stock options they get and don’t pay taxes on). Corporations are sitting on $2 trillion they need to invest. So where better to invest it than in the workers they’ve screwed over for 30 years?

    While I was ecstatic that President Obama included it in his to do list, I’m going to pretend I’m a greedy little CEO and tell the board I want more — not for me, I make well over that — but for my fellow workers who should have the dignity to be able to do an honest day’s work for an honest day’s pay without having to go to the government and fill out tons of paperwork in order to get assistance from the rest of us to survive. Corporations need to stop putting their liabilities on we the people and pay their own way.

  16. GregD says:

    The reasons this country is bankrupt is simple, NAFTA and GATT, signed by Clinton with support from Reagan, Ford, Bush#1 and Charter. You can’t give away 90$ of our manufacturing base and survive on a relatively weak service economy.

  17. GregD says:

    I don’t live in Australia nor the U.K. nor Japan, I live in a country which is uniquely itself and became itself more over the British coming to compensate the colonist arms then any other reason, that’s non-revised history.

    When I google peoples lives saved by guns I read dozens of small and not so small town local newspaper articles regarding people who’s butts were saved because they had a gun. I’ve read opinions about people/women who are 12 times more likely to get shoot if they have a gun in the house even though the numbers go up and down as to the percentage,, Ive read as high as 43 times more likely,,,, none of this of course makes any sense because if there’s no gun in the house then how is she going to get shot? — I don’t get it could you please explain it to me?

    You don’t think a woman should have a gun in her house ?? My God where do you live a gated community? Seems that the only way a woman would get shot if there’s no gun in the house would be a bad guy in which case she has two options, have a gun and level the playing field or not have a gun and take the chance that the bad guy has a heart,, if you want to play with your or your family’s lives that’s your business and I won’t fault you for it.

    The Military uses M-16′s not AR-15′s there’s a big difference,, AR-15′ are not Assault weapons,, they are semi-autos that look ugly. We all use to laugh at the last Assault weapons ban because all they did was ban the ugly one’s — so we would call it ” the ugly gun ban”. It had virtually no impact on gun crimes but it made uneducated people feel, dare I say? —— Warm and Fuzzy.

    I live in a Orange Grove — ummm let me clarify, I live in a house which is in the middle of a Orange grove and have all my life. Twice Ive saved my life using a gun. Many people around here have so what a third party thinks about weather or not I should own one or two or ten guns — well it just doesn’t concern me what they think.

    Most these anti-gun talking points are silly and none of them would have stopped any of these mass shootings if the shooter was determined enough. When I used the word “absolute” when writing Mario mainly what I meant was that no matter what I or someone else says regarding this issue, even if there is undeniable proof of what’s being said — it won’t change the hard core left wingers from believing in such travesty’s as gun control — I myself am a Liberal and believe in the Liberal view points, or at least the one’s which make sense but I won’t be treated like a criminal just because I have guns, hell half the Liberals I know are against gun control.

    To me this issue along with all those silly issues the Republicans have are just a product of those 24 hour a day Orwellian propaganda machines known as Fox and MSNBC —– very little of it has to do with individuals doing independent research.

  18. GregD says:

    And I forgot — why do you and others assume that because a person owns a gun they are paranoid, that’s a very silly statement. Why do you have life insurance or auto insurance ? are you paranoid ? If you have extra food in your pantry in case of a natural disaster are you paranoid ? Did you scorn people on the east coast who had some food stashed when the storm hit as paranoid…. Do you believe that the Boy Scouts are paranoid
    for being always prepared? Do you lock your doors at night? Use a car alarm?

  19. demi says:

    I think this NRA guy sounds alot like an up and coming hitler type decrying to the masses the president is trying to do us harm and disarm all of us, I don’t think thats what the president is saying or doing at all. telling the members that they should buy as many weapons and ammo as they can, why what do they need them for theres no war going on here in the states, promoting fear is doing nothing but making epople react to the crisis that hasn’t yet happened and may never happen, unless people like this dude keeps raving and ranting about it, inciting the actions to occur.

    I think gun control would work 98% of the time if it were really enforced, theres to many loopholes that allow guns to be brought by people who shouldn’t have them, legally or under ground or by a private dealer or drug dealers or gang members, But police departments should never look the other way when they know that guns are being sold at gun shows legally and then right beside the legal gun sellers are those who don’t require any kind of ID or license or back ground checks how is that being responsibile or legal when you can skip over the lawful and buy from the unlawful it doesn’t make sense. besides why is it being allowed in the first place? is it apart of the good old boys antics if you can’t buy a gun from the dealer lawfully you can go over there to billy and buy one with no problem. I think there should be monitoring of those who have guns also of their families and whether or not there is violence in the home, or if anybody has any mental health issues including the purchaser or anyone in their household, when you buy a gun it’s everybodies responsibility in that home not just the buyer of that gun.

    No military style weapons should not be sold to the public for any reason members in politics should not be allowed to look the other way when the safety of the american people is in question, in my state one can only buy one gun per month, but the NRA dude is saying buy as many as you want, more over thats to keep the money flowing to the manufacturers their sponsors and to keep the money flowing to the NRA you don’t join or stay a member for free.

    I don’t get why it’s this arguement over gun rights anyway we do have laws that have to continue to be abidded by, the NRA is not apart of the legislative body or law enforcement so why does this guy even get a say, why does he get invited to the whitehouse or even asked his opinion thats where Obama and others are making a huge mistake, allowing these people to just go rogue against the president of the united states get on tv or the net and make all kinds of statements against the president and the state of this country calling for revolutions and war and upheavel.. paying off those in office for a vote on their way, allowing those in office to take the money and vote against americans best interest.

    The way to stop gun violence is to enforce the law and mean it like they do in other countrys they don’t play they don’t tolerate they don’t allow they don’t play party line over party line , they don’t let citizens call the shots and they don’t let them get on tv and condemn them and tell the president what their going to do , and the president can kiss where the sun don’t shine if he don’t like it, Oh no the law is what the law is they will enforce the law no loopholes no questions asked the law is the law.

    Here in america we can cuss out the president threaten him harm and walk away smiling talking trash like we just said and did all that to a neighbor or something , now i don’t know when all this started to be allowed but somebody really needs to put this crap in check. How do we expect other leaders of countrys to respect this president or this country if many who live here and who are in politics are doing everything they can to say here, the door is open wide we opened it for you come on here take what you want do what you want and hell go on back home. Do we think the leader of Iran gives a damn what the president is saying when he can’t even control his own citizens how’s he going to control him in another country? These actions that are being taken is weaking the country Congress is weakening the country with their antics, the NRA is weakening our society with their antics while people are losing their lives because of angry out of control people in this country, there are people who are losing jobs and homes and life savings the sequestor is right around the corner thats going to make this country take a huge nose dive, we worry about the second amendment, the right to bear arms which is not even in question. But let everything else go down the river for guns that no ones even trying to take away, in reality certain guns could be banned and you wouldn’t even miss them because you would have something else legal to replace it with, gun control would work if it were enforced and not just in theory.

  20. Carol says:

    Diana…your statistics and argument are spot on…I’m just not convinced that we can double the minimum at that pace. Would that the greedy execs would grow a soul and treat their employees as the lifeblood of their enterprise, remember they’d be nowhere without us and treat us respectfully and fairly…and a dozen or so of the banker’s wear prison garb for a few years!

  21. GregD says:

    So what your advocating Demi is that we install a police state, a kind of low key martial law.
    Your 98 % figure was funny, tnx for the laugh.
    ” This year will go down in history. For the first time a civilized country will have full gun registration!
    Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient and the world will follow our lead into the future”

    Adolph Hitler, 1935.

  22. GoldenSun says:

    “That’s $18,720 a year. And while that is above poverty level,”
    @Diana if your stats are correct and I’m confident they are that may mean some people making the $9 may no longer qualify for some government assistance if needed. I’m not sure what their measure of poverty level qualifies them but if that is indeed the case, the raise to $9 may hurt instead of help. What say you?

    @Demi – I like what you posted.

    @GredD – seeing as how you are the “gun expert” in this discussion – what measures would you recommend to keep our children and citizens from gun violence?

  23. @GregD

    With all due respect, Greg, you need to find new sources for your quotes and data if you wish to carry on an intelligent debate on gun control. That Hitler quote of yours is bogus and typical of the type of arguments used by the ‘anti-gun control’ lobby.

    This quotation, often seen without any date or citation at all, suffers from several credibility problems, the most significant of which is that the date given (*in alternate versions, the words “This year…” are replaced by “1935…”) has no correlation with any legislative effort by the Nazis for gun registration, nor would there have been a need for the Nazis to pass such a law, since gun registration laws passed by the Weimar government were already in effect.

    See here for details and more bogus quotes.

    This is an example of why it’s hard to have meaningful debate on serious issues when one side is unwilling to acknowledge facts and data and operates on made-up stuff they believe to be true.

  24. alwaysoccupy says:

    GergD,

    We are not against you having guns or rifles. We are against criminals or mental cases having access to semi-automatic weapons so we can lessen the carnage when one decides to go on a killing spree. If you believe that the defense of America is to save lives against terrorists,then non-access to semi-automatic weapons will save lives by diminishing the number of deaths per rage.

    If you can’t see that, then you are encouraging the bad guys to come to your house while you’re gone for a Holiday and steal the weapon of mass murder. Which means that you will have assisted in the deaths of many more people that would not have died if the culprit had had a rifle or a gun. If you can live with that,then you’re heart is much more hardened than I thought.

  25. GregD says:

    I can live with that because it happens so seldom.
    How did this conversation turn from ARs to what sounds like your calling all semi-autos ??
    I will write more later because I know your really looking forward to my wisdom and logic but Ive
    got to go pick my Grandpa up from school.
    And for today’s after school activity I’m going to show him how to field strip a M1- A1
    because with 7 billion people on this planet and 3000 religions I know he at one time or another he
    will need to know this stuff.

  26. alwaysoccupy says:

    So your logic is that the next time a crazy nut goes out there in some auditorium,let him have 2 x 100 round clips in some semi-automatic murder machine and kill some 45 to 60 people watching a basketball game and it s OK because there won’t be another event like that for another two to five years. That’s an amazing heartless response so you can win an argument.

    My only wish is that your grandchildren are not in that auditorium because if you won’t worry about them,then I guess we will.

  27. GregD says:

    Ahh the diversionary answer to questions a person can’t answer, just ramble off some B.S.
    Ive owned guns for 50 years and Ive never heard of a hundred round mag, maybe they exist but like I said Ive never heard of them.
    We now live in a country where half the people hate the other half and over reaction is the name of the game.
    You believe that banning semi-auto will eliminate the crazy person from taking a couple of lever action 30-30′s into where ever and killing a bunch of people. So in the end you won’t feel warm and fuzzy until all guns are banned.

    Never Mind trying any longer to install in your head that less then 1 % of all gun crimes are committed using what
    some folks mistakenly call Assault Rifles, and God Forbid expecting you to ever google ‘lives saved with guns’ where you will find local news papers reporting on a daily bases many of these events.
    Nor would I expect you to grasp the concept that bad people will always have whatever type of gun they want.
    In actuality I don’t worry about these things to much because of the stupidity of our species. I’m kind of on the late
    great Carl Sagan’s page when it comes to our chances. I have no Grandchildren but if I did the fact that the world
    is on the brink of blowing its self up would concern me more then guns. My father always told me ” never get killed from lack of shooting back” — and I won’t.

    Gun control like so many other topics has many grey areas, those grey areas are the one’s that thinking people
    look at —- this is not the black and white topic you so adamantly believe.

    One last Ironic note; Feinstein has been quoted several times as saying ” I see no reason why any American should own a firearm” yet she has 4 armed bodyguards and admits she has a carry permit and always has a loaded 38 in her purse. I suppose my family isn’t important enough.

  28. alwaysoccupy says:

    GregD,

    Boy what a future you have in your head. Keep the venom flowing,it seems to suit you.

    I’d rather believe in a world that will reach the far stars with the goodness of humankind displaying the best that we can be.

    “Optimism is a strategy for making a better future. Because unless you believe that the future can be better, you are unlikely to step up and take responsibility for making it so.”

    Noam Chomsky

  29. fidlerten says:

    I would like to know what is so absolute about the Second Amendment? The very idea that it is an amendment, attest to the fact that it is not absolute.

  30. GregD says:

    The Second Amendment is in the original bill of rights , it’s a absolute until you change the Constitution.
    And Always Occupy, Norm Chomsky is one of the reasons I believe what I believe.
    7 billion people one a Planet which is designed to sustain around 2 billion won’t work — that’s Mr. Chomsky’s words.
    There are 3 thousand religions and most of them want to kill each other, we in America are acting like Rome as
    we occupy the world with troops wail were going bankrupt at home. We’ve given away 90% of our manufacturing base to China and Mexico via NAFTA and GATT.
    China who were given most favored trade status to for years murders thousands of it’s people almost daily and I don’t even want to talk about what’s going on in Africa.
    The United States just got done murdering 1/2 million innocent civilians in Iraq ( source; Dept of Defence),,, that’s
    men, women, children and babies.
    Nobody talks about the Illuminati even as they display their symbol on the back of our dollar bills.
    And lastly within 10 years every country which can call its self a country will have nukes,,, and you people are worried about outlawing types of weapons which are only responsible for less then 1% of gun crime ( source; The Dept of Justice) — you people have your priorities screwed up.

  31. speedbump says:

    Illuminati???? How did they get involved in a discussion on gun control? Not important, I’m with Greg because nothing works better at taking down Iranian nukes directed at our towns and cities than an AR-15.

  32. alwaysoccupy says:

    GregD,

    So don’t forget your chewing Tobacco when you go down in glory shooting those black helicopters that were created to destroy in the first place while making horrid profits to the detriment of you and me. Those armament companies love you because the USA is going out of Afghanistan and they need survivalists like you to keep on making money. Keep up with those thoughts. Your imagination is breathtaking. I will wager 9$ of minimum wage that your days will never come and you will die disappointed that you wasted all that money for a pipe dream.

  33. GregD says:

    Over population, NAFTA and GATT, genocide in Iraq.
    How did you go from those subjects to survivalism ?
    If you don’t have reasonable and logical responses to the items above then don’t
    make comments about them.
    Start a different subject and for God sake read a book and don’t get down on me
    for subjects which are easy to prove, GATT, easy to prove. Over population, easy to prove. Genocide in Iraq,
    easy to prove.

  34. One question – we can bring down a 350 pound bear with a tranquilizer dart., why do we need bullets to kill people?

    Use bullets for a hunting rifle – tranquilizer darts for hand guns. Ban Bushmasters and their equivalents – just as we did machine gun ownership.

    GregD – you lost what little credibility you had left when you brought up the Illuminati — there’s no point in having any further discussion.

    GoldenSun – it’s quite possible. Each state determines the level of of income before state assistance is given.

    I need to look up the levels in GA — they provide the least amount of assistance, as i recall. I’ll get back to you later on that. in the middle of a couple of websites and I need dinner.

  35. fidlerten says:

    Let’s change the Second Amendment and add that the only people who should have a right to guns are those who can prove they do not belong to the NRA. That way we can at least keep guns out of the hands of conspiracy theorist.

  36. GregD says:

    The Illuminati has everything to do with it, but other then the Illuminati you didn’t respond to any of the points or opinions I made. I can scream out that Ar-15, Bushmaster and there clones are responsible for less then 1% of all gun crimes and you will not respond, your trying to ban something that kills less people in a year then hammers.
    I can ask you nicely to look up the number of people who save there lives everyday with gun’s but you won’t look it up. In reality the most dangerous thing this country and the world is the unwillingness of people to take the greatest information device ever conceived by mankind ‘ your computer’ and use it to look up the truth.
    Instead you cling to a belief system and allow no new information to enter unless it jives with yours,,, if it doesn’t you do the only option left to you, you attack the person asking the questions or just plain insult them….
    Your ” There’s not point in any future discussion ” is straight out of the third grade playground play book.

  37. alwaysoccupy says:

    GregD,

    I did respond to the 1% of gun crimes by ”clones” but you still do not grasp the fact that I don’t care about comparaisons of percentages on a national scale but rather the number of deaths per events. It is grotesque to think like this but If one event with a gun or rifle can have 10 casualties in 10 minutes compared to 26 casualties in the same amount of time with your Bushmaster,then I would prefer restrictions on those mass murder machines. For the gun issue,I have no objections to ownership of guns or rifles.I will not look it up because it is a well known fact that guns are used to kill most of the time.No where has that been an issue and never did I suggest that later on, I will want you to lose your guns or rifles. My discussion has always been on semi automatic weapons with high capacity clips and it is the issue on the national scene.

    But I continue to say that your world view is not the same as mine and we’ll have to agree to disagree on the weapons of mass murder. As long as you fight the good fight with a pen instead of a Bushmaster flaring the conversation then we will see where popular opinion leads us in the future and if democracy is part of your belief system,then I hope you will obey the will of the people. The people are the ones who dictate Policy and not politicians.

  38. GregD says:

    Weapons of mass destruction — very funny, oh! you weren’t trying to be funny, bummer.
    The bottom line is Americans will not give up their guns and if you do get some banned they will end up
    in a box under millions of peoples back yards.
    I’m going to take a wild guess, and correct me if I’m wrong — I’m thinking you grew up and live in a reasonably
    nice city, where most people have not been around guns and they get most their information from a Liberal source. More then likely you have had little experience with guns and have no real first hand knowledge about them.

    I’m a Orange Rancher, I’m not a redneck, I’m very glad the health care bill passed, I think Rush is a complete idiot
    and think Hannity should move to another country — of course I also think Stephanie Miller is a extremist.
    The difference is I grew up in the country where everyone had guns — So naturally I look at this whole thing in a
    different light.

    Now here’s the rub — I voted for G.W. Bush the first time he ran, I was very much a Conservative.
    But what happened was that every other weekend I’d have a barbecue out on my deck with friends some of
    which were Liberals, we would talk about this and that and I would listen to what they had to say and they would listen to what myself a few of my Conservative friends would have to say, we would show each other respect and never get angry and we were very open to researching stats. A closed mind is a terrible thing to waste and so we learned from each other and we still do…. So this Conservative took on some Liberal ideas and voted for Obama and my Liberal friends took on some Conservative ideas even though gun bans were not one of them. — Of course these Liberals lived in the country so they already were pro-gun.

    The worse part about all this stuff is more the idea that people refuse to listen, in your case you say you didn’t need to look up stats — and it seems like everybody who doesn’t agree exactly the way the other side does are idiots or paranoid or whatever the latest label might be. A Nation divided will not stand and if we don’t come to grips that both sides of this issue have their rights and wrongs then we will just fade away and self destruct.
    This prevalent mind set posses much more danger to our children then passing laws which have been tried
    and failed.
    Anyway I wish you the best and I hope no one breaks into your house in the middle of the night.

  39. GoldenSun says:

    GregD – rumors, stories and theories about the Illuminati, a “global elite” society that is either in control of the world or is seeking to take control of the world, has been around for centuries.

    Those who believe in this highly secretive order of the Illuminati believe that organizations such as the United Nations, the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank, and the International Criminal Court are tentacles of the Illuminati.

    According to the Illuminati conspiracy, the Illuminati are the driving force behind efforts to brainwash the gullible masses through thought control and manipulation of beliefs, through the press, the educational curriculum, and the political leadership of the nations.

    Does such an organization actually exist? Well since the organization is “highly secretive” one cannot be absolutely certain.

    But I do believe that there is a co-ordination of wealthy people mainly from the Business world that have used their power and influence to manipulate governments, laws and media worldwide. We’ve certainly have seen examples of this even in OUR latest elections and workings of government.

    I believe the wealthy have been running Washington for decades, essentially buying our politicians, promoting legislation favorable to their purposes and influencing a large sector of the American public through news media and other means.

    There’s no doubt that NATO and GATT was formed by some sort of coalition of these type of people.

    When even our Supreme Court made the outlandish ruling that “Corporations are People” and gave them the legal ability to buy elections – somebody made that happen.

    People are constantly be influenced and manipulated like sheep and until a large majority realize THAT – our personal efforts of controlling our own destiny’s will be severely compromised.

    PS – Your advice about using ‘your computer’ for knowledge and information is good, BUT one should be aware that they must muddle through a lot of BS websites to get to a source of factual and truthful information.

  40. GregD says:

    Well said Golden Sun.

  41. fidlerten says:

    GregD,

    I must respond to your statement you are making to someone, I’m not exactly sure who, as there is much being said – mostly by you I would suppose in defense of your indefensible positions. This statement here:

    “I can ask you nicely to look up the number of people who save there lives everyday with gun’s but you won’t look it up. In reality the most dangerous thing this country and the world is the unwillingness of people to take the greatest information device ever conceived by mankind ‘ your computer’ and use it to look up the truth.”

    I would think it is your job to look up links to prove your positions, and if your links prove to be credible sources, not some right-wing conspiracy theorist website, and your evidence is credible, then you should do the research, not ask others to go look it up.

  42. GregD says:

    Fiddler.
    I’m not the person trying to take away another persons rights.
    Just Goggle ‘lives saved by guns in America’ and you will find newspaper articles from
    around the country reporting these incidences, it happens everyday. These are not personal blogs,
    they are just newspapers reporting what happens in their respective cities and towns.
    I’m not trying to take anything away from you so why would you consider it my responsibility to provide
    the information for you,,, it will only take you 20 minutes.
    Nothing is going to change your mind on this issue and I know that,, but tonight when I get home from the mountains
    I will write down a dozen or two people and/or families who are alive because they had a gun in there house, then I’ll post it, it’s worth the 20 minutes to me.
    The reason Obama passed a law which allows people to carry their guns in our National Parks was because he was sent a video of a father trying to save is son from a Black Bear, Obama questioned why the father didn’t have a gun, he was informed that it was illegal to have a gun in the National Parks so Obama insisted that a bill to allow such carry be written — it was written and he signed it along with a bill that allowed carry on Mass Transit.
    There are already reports about lives saved because of these pro-gun bills..

  43. Greg. You’ve created a false narrative and now you’re going overboard trying to defend it. Classic straw man argument.

    No one wants to take your guns away. Gun control is not about taking guns away from you. It’s about having reasonable laws in place that make it more difficult for guns to fall into the hands of people who should not own them. So there’s no point in claiming that someone’s life was saved by a gun. I’m sure there are a bunch of those stories…(although for every story you bring up, we could point to a hundred stories of a child or other innocent person accidentally killed by a firearm.)

    Keep your guns. Nobody wants to take them away from you…nor could they. Your right to gun ownership is constitutionally protected. But don’t try to tell me that sensible gun laws should not be put into place. Don’t tell me that background checks and smaller capacity magazines infringe on your constitutional right to own a gun. For if you do make such claims, then it tells me that you’re just not listening. It tells me that you’ve shut down the rational part of your brain on this issue and are operating on pure irrational emotion.

    The NRA has a reason for being ridiculous and irrational in their opposition to reasonable gun laws. They’re in the business of selling as many guns as they can for their sponsors. What’s your excuse, Greg?

  44. GregD says:

    No Mario there are not a hundred stories of innocent children or other persons being accidentally killed by a firearm for every one story of someone who saves there life with the use of one — this isn’t a straw man argument either and there’s every point in the world to bring up people who save their lives with guns because some of those lives were saved with guns which you don’t like, you know the ugly one’s. Point being is those people would be dead if they hadn’t had the guns which many anti gun people don’t think they should own.
    It’s easily accessed statistics, I don’t make this stuff up just to prove I’m right.
    And yes they do want to take some of my guns away, Feinstein wants to ban without a Grandfather clause two guns which I own and if she gets her way if I don’t turn them in I will become a felon,, these aren’t even very nasty guns and one was given to me by my father before he died.
    I very much appreciate people who want to save lives and as Ive said I feel background checks are a necessary but I’m in California where we already have that.
    Now to repeat myself — these are easy to look up stats so look them up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    About the only thing that will protect innocent people from being shot by bad guys are good guys with guns — now that is reality,,,, at least in my world.

  45. Looked it up — i doubt much has changed since 2001:

    Is his analysis valid? “I certainly don’t feel very comfortable with the way he’s used the data,” says Hart Research president Geoffrey Garin. While Kleck based his findings on the Hart survey, his analysis of the circumstances under which guns were used came from other studies. Protests Garin: “We don’t know anything about the nature of the instances people were reporting.” Says William Eastman, president of the California Chiefs of Police Association, about the Kleck conclusions: “It annoys the hell out of me. There’s no basis for that data.”

    There is far more research on the question of who is most likely to get killed when someone keeps a gun at home. In a 1986 study called “Protection or Peril?,” Dr. Arthur Kellermann, a University of Tennessee professor of medicine, and Dr. Donald Reay, chief medical examiner of King County in Washington, concluded that for each defensive, justifiable homicide there were 43 murders, suicides or accidental deaths. Out of 398 gunshot fatalities in homes in King County between 1978 and 1983, only nine were motivated by self- defense.

    The one-week survey by TIME found a similar ratio on a national basis: only 14 of the 464 gun deaths resulted from defensive firing. An alarming 216 were suicides, 22 were accidental, and many of the rest involved homicides among people who knew each other well rather than citizens gunned down by strangers.

    Such statistics do not refute the argument that a gun, even if not fired, can save a life by discouraging a murderous attacker. Still, Tulane sociologist James Wright points out that guns have limited usefulness in preventing crimes. About 90% of crimes in homes occur when the resident is away, he notes, while violent crimes often take place on the streets. Says Wright: “Unless you make a habit of walking around with your gun at all times, you’re not going to stop that either.”

    A relatively balanced view of the gun question comes, surprisingly, from Kleck. “The vast majority of the population lives in low-crime neighborhoods and has virtually no need for a gun for defensive reasons,” he says. “A tiny fraction has a great deal of reason to get anything it can get that might help reduce its victimization.”

    Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,152446,00.html#ixzz2LCJHf7lU

    and from ABC News:

    Violent crime rates have been falling in recent years, but the number of people killed by firearms in the United States remains high. According to the FBI Uniform Crime Report, between 2006 and 2010 47,856 people were murdered in the U.S. by firearms, more than twice as many as were killed by all other means combined.

  46. GoldenSun says:

    Hi Diana, Great Post ! –

    It occurs to me that – “mak[ing] a habit of walking around with your gun at all times” is some peoples GOAL !

    It’s not the people that want us to believe that guns are for “home protection” that irritates me so much as the people that claim they need high powered weapons in case “they” decided it was time to “protect us from a tyrannical government” – and people that believe that somehow they qualify as a “well-regulated militia.”

    Of course these people tend to be right wing, most likely extremists and outright fanatics about the 2nd Amendment, which under my own interpretation means that we all have a right to bear a “musket”, seeing as how THAT was the main form of the “firearms” that existed when the Amendment was written.

    People that buy into Wayne LaPierre’s mindset leaves many to question if these people are too mentally unstable to even own a weapon because after all, it’s the “mentally ill” that commit the shootings in America’s most public of places.

    At any rate, this IS the time to stand and shout -”Your right to gun ownership is constitutionally protected. But don’t try to tell me that sensible gun laws should not be put into place. Don’t tell me that background checks and smaller capacity magazines infringe on your constitutional right to own a gun.”

    (Well said Mr. Mario Piperni !)

    Too many innocent Americans – kids, parents, somebodies love one’s – are dying, and what kind of people are we if we don’t try to do SOMETHING about that?

  47. GregD says:

    Golden Sun,
    With all due respect your a complete idiot, I’m very sorry that’s the case.
    Read some books authored by the Founding Fathers, almost all of them wrote their reasons
    for the Second Amendment being the most important next to speech and Religion.

  48. gimp says:

    “Founding Fathers, almost all of them wrote their reasons
    for the Second Amendment being the most important next to speech and Religion.”

    220 years ago!!!!!!!!! I’m so fed up with clowns who have no fucking clue that the year is 2013 and not 1790. Wake up already!

  49. fidlerten says:

    GregD,
    What you are trying to prove it sounds to me, is that having guns around is protection; protection from who? Most generally it’s someone with a gun.

    It sounds like to me that you live in fear; you’re afraid of the government and your afraid of the criminal and you’re afraid of that shadow on the wall that does not even exist, it was just a flicker of the candle you must still be using to light your home because your ideas and thoughts must be back in 1790 as gimp
    said.

    I’ve lived in some of the worse crime areas, even lived through the Rodney King riots when I had to get to work in the middle of the night without a bus and while buildings still burned around me. I never owned a gun though I did learn how to avoid trouble.

    But it’s people like you who need guns to protect yourself from other people who have guns. Many of us learn to live our lives just fine without a gun. It’s true, many of us could face a criminal intent on killing us and we could also run into one of those law-abiding citizens that Wayne LaPierre likes to talk about a lot, with a keg of beer in him and a jealous eye for his girlfriend or wife, and a gun in the glove box of his car.

    Having more guns around, means more gun deaths, that’s a fact.

  50. GregD says:

    Fiderten I was a Army Ranger for eight years and about the only thing that really spooks me is people like you.
    Now that I know you live or lived in L.A. pretty well explains everything.

  51. Anonymous says:

    LMAO GregD you are a ducking fummy, your obsession with defending the right town weapons when there are 350 million of them out there and over 2000 makes and models which can be bought legally and you’re tripping over the insane belief that someone want

    e to take ALL your toys away, smacks of paranoia schizo, a mental disease. K’ve owned guns since I was old enough.to buy one. Never did I fear that someone was going go take them away or that I wouldn’t be able to purchase another.
    We spend over 20% of our country’s budget on National Defe

    nse , don’t think we need a militia. Thefe’s no way the Founding Fathers could envision the weaponry available to citizens today, so my musket comment has a measure of validity.

  52. fidlerten says:

    GregD,

    The biggest difference between you and I is that I can lay down at night and not worry that the federal government is going to storm my door. I don’t live and fear and you do. But folks like you are not happy unless you have some enemy – real or fantasy – to worry about. If it isn’t another government, it’s your government.

    As far as living in L.A. I also grew up around a bunch of rednecks and hicks in Oklahoma. I know guys like you,army grunts; full of machismo and bullshit. They need their macho fronts to hide the small boys inside who are afraid of so many thing.

    And why would you be afraid of someone who has no gun like me? Perhaps the pen is more mightier than the gun.

  53. GregD says:

    You folks answer questions using diversion and most often make no sense.
    It’s exactly like watching Fox where no matter what the facts are they stick to the right and don’t allow distraction.
    They insult the opposition using whatever they can to achieve their goals and make their opponents sound stupid.

    You people do the same thing, there is no middle ground and half your thoughts are just opinions fed to you.
    If I say I was a Army Ranger you find fault and call me paranoid, if I say I wish to protect my family you find fault and call me paranoid,, in fact everything Ive said has been met usually with insults. To me you are the paranoid one’s and I see no difference between you and Fox — you will always be right even when your wrong and you will never listen or analyze information which goes against your blind belief system.
    Talking to you people is by no means a lesson in philosophy it’s more like a cult, it’s more like Fox except on the fringe left instead of the fringe right.

  54. alwaysoccupy says:

    GregD,

    You wrote a little way back:

    Golden Sun,
    With all due respect your a complete idiot

    Before calling this august group insulting your integrity,look at yourself first.

    I think this blog was the longest one ever and I think again that we will agree to disagree. We are sorry that your life has been a tough one with no grand children but we still believe that you don’t need to cut down a person in half because he is stealing your car. I do believe for now that background checks will pass and it’s a start. If Bushmasters continue their rampant rage on the population,the people will come after the Bushmasters and not the government.

  55. GoldenSun says:

    My Dear GregD,

    I for one want nothing more than a reasonable solution to the increase of gun violence and the increasing use of high capacity weapons for mass shootings in our most public of places, ie schools, theaters, malls, places of work.

    To that purpose there has been a discussion on some “common sense” ideas that may help.

    Things like Background checks, gun registration, permits to own, elimination of the loopholes for gun shows and such on background checks, making it illegal to transfer weapons to a third party without that person going through the aforementioned processes, I would add a training program especially for first time owners may help.

    All for the purpose of insuring that weapons do not fall into the hands of criminals or other unqualified people and that the people that have weapons have knowledge of the safe use and storage of their guns.

    While some type of proposal for banning some types or “assault weapons” has been discussed in the wake of several multiple shootings in the recent past of children, college students, theater goers and plain innocents going about their daily business, this should NOT be interpreted as a “BAN ON ALL WEAPONS”.

    The people on this site, including myself, have repeatedly said that they are not “against guns” no one wants to totally ban guns. Yet it seems that that is beyond your comprehension.

    I called you”paranoid” not because you own guns but because you see the slightest change in the process of obtaining, owning and storage of weapons – a “travesty” and your defense against such travesty over the top and obsessive claiming self-preservation from “person who is stealing my car ” and “7 billion people on this planet and 3000 religions” and you make claims such as ” the world is on the brink of blowing its self up ” and
    “within 10 years every country which can call its self a country will have nukes”.

    While any well rounded person understands the need for occasions of “self-preservation” under certain conditions, you can’t fault some people for finding your observations a little excessive.

    And not once, even though I asked your opinion, have you shown any concerned with the “self-preservation” of the increasing number of Americans who have been the innocent victims of the other end of these same weapons or the pain, suffering and trauma caused to the millions of Americans that have seen these tragedies unfold in the media.

    I believe that is what the friends on here wanted from you, but all we got was “Gun Control doesn’t work” or that
    you would “never agree to any gun control except back ground checks”.

    No, I don’t think we, the people searching for a solution, are the ones being “unreasonable” and frankly, comparing us to “Fox News” was a very low blow.

    I leave you with something I hope you’ll mull over as a perspective on a growing segment of our society:

    “Their lives are regulated more by moral feeling than by reasoning — all their mistakes are in the direction of doing things excessively and vehemently. They overdo everything — they love too much, hate too much, and the same with everything else.” -Aristotle

  56. GregD says:

    Back ground checks, that’s it.
    And even that’s against the Constitution.
    And yes the way Ive been talked to on this site if on the same level of misinformation as Fox.
    This has been fun — thx for the Obama care it was much needed and the equal pay for women.
    Good luck with your gun registration and ammo limitations to come and I do hope you enjoy your cult.

  57. fidlerten says:

    GregD,

    Why do you take what is said on here so personal? Is it possible that you can simply offer your opinion and then listen to the rebuttal of others without finding yourself defending your values and ideas as though it’s a personal attack on you?

    It becomes personal because you let it become personal. You probably feel like I did and many of us did when George W. Bush was president and playing like he was king. It was like some kind of weight constantly was over my head when he was president. If the man came on TV to speak to the nation, I turned it off. I couldn’t stand him and I knew he was really screwing up our country but there was nothing I could do.

    And when I talked to conservatives, you’d think that this was the way America was going to be for now on; rich men getting richer, lower paying jobs replacing higher paying jobs and war, endless war.

    So here you are now living in a new world and it’s changing quickly around you in a way that you don’t like. It’s okay to express your feelings but you get sidetracked when you start taking things personal and attacking others as you perceive them attacking you.

    I can tell you one thing; I respect your opinion and your right to express it, and I betcha most everyone here feels the same way. I do not respect you when you express such anger because of their responses to you.

    My best advice to you would be to chill out and just express your opinion but take nothing personal because none of these people really know you, do they? That knowledge should empower you to be whoever you are to these people and anyone else you come in contact with online.

    They do not know you and instead of showing them the angry right-winger defending the Second Amendment as though it was a personal vendetta, show them the open-minded, intelligent and well-versed individual you’d like them to see. And if someone personally attacks you, do not lower yourself to their standard but always keep a certain decorum with everyone. Show them the same discipline you learned as an Army career person and not the right wing extremist everyone is seeing from you now.

  58. GregD says:

    What part of ‘ I voted for Obama ‘ and ‘ I fully supported Obama Care did you not understand ?

  59. Carol says:

    DIANA: back to wages…here’s a sign on petition that’s gathering steam…perhaps you’d like to feature it and pass it along…

    http://signon.org/sign/bring-about-a-living?mailing_id=9255&source=s.icn.em.cr&r_by=651317

  60. Carol says:

    Here’s a little something about gun stats…just a short quiz. I learned something new.

    http://act.weareultraviolet.org/go/489?t=3&akid=320.2264.K9_J3Z