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Who says there’s no common sense in Tennessee?
A judge on Friday blocked a Tennessee law that allowed people to bring handguns into restaurants and bars.
The law that took effect in July allowed handgun owners with permits to pack their pistols in places serving alcohol, providing the establishments made more than half their profits from food.
Nashville Judge Claudia Bonnyman said the law was “fraught with ambiguity” and ruled in favor of a suit brought by restaurant owners who argued gun owners would not be able to determine if an establishment met the criteria.
“We will have vigilantes shooting up bars all over,” said Randy Rayburn, the owner of three upscale cafes, who led opponents of the law.
Supporters were considering a possible appeal, or new legislation.
Now if they could block the law allowing guns in parks, I might consider visiting Nashville someday.
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For what it’s worth, although I have reservations about this law, to the best of my knowledge there have been no incidents of anyone shooting up bars since this law was passed.
Likewise, no gun fights in parks.
From Anomaly- It’s astounding that anyone would actually want guns & booze in the same building. Mix those two things & you’ve got an armed inebriated person which means a lack of judgement. The gun advocates are making this a political issue. This is a human issue. Approximately 30,000 people a year in America die due to gun violence. The numbers vary depending on who you’re asking, but even if it were 10,000, that’s astounding. This number is larger than the amount of American soldiers that have died in Iraq. This is war on our doorstep, with our own people. I am not anti-guns, by any means. I am, however, against people who want to stockpile weapons.
Just yesterday, 2 men in NYC, were arrested for gun trafficking & illegal sales. These guns can be purchased legally for $200 & they were sold for $1,000. We are not a gun state. This means, the people carrying guns are probably criminals. Violent criminals. Also recently, NY investigators who posed as illegal gun buyers at 7 firearm shows in 3 states (Tennessee, Ohio & Nevada, I believe) were able to buy weapons in 3 out of 4 attempted purchases. They were easily purchased, with the knowledge of a dubious criminal record.
The NRA pro-gun folks shout me down whenever I mention this, but it is still a fact. I do not want to worry about how many guns my crazy neighbor is hoarding. I don’t want my crazy neighbor drinking & hoarding guns either, especially in public around innocent people. I am more than pleased that this judge had the foresight & wisdom to act on this.
look at that, there is someone with common sense in Tennessee (as well as their court of appeal — so a few folks)
The “logic” was there are already laws in place that make it illegal to be in possession of or under the influence of alcohol and be in possession of a firearm. Ergo, allow sober and responsible people in restaurants that also sell alcohol to legally carry in the event of…..oh….I guess attack from some foreign nation or something.
If I were in the market for a gun (pay attention Tucker) and I’m not, but if I WERE, I would look for one that I could avoid registering.
Sooner or later you people are going to get around to banning personal ownership of firearms and they will come looking for those that are registered.
The logic is so simple, most do not grasp it. If you “Outlaw” guns, only “Outlaws” will remain armed.
@Tennessean
the logic isn’t already there in the law. it is ambiguous, you can carry a gun into a bar, bars serve alcohol, people go to bars to drink alcohol; not a huge stretch to believe that a drunk affronted someone would then pull out their gun and start shooting.
janine, please. The law was targeted to allow people to carry in places like O’Charley’s, Applebee’s, Outback, etc. (“…establishments [that] made more than half their profits from food.) It wasn’t targeted for places like the Stage or Tootsie’s Lounge. (Straight up drinking establishments.)
For people who hold the south in general and Tennessee in particular in low esteem, there’s not too much that IS a stretch of the imagination.
You need to re-read the first 9 words of my comment. And Frances, that’s why grammer is so important. If I had put a comma between “was” and “there”, or any type of punctuation to indicate a pause, I doubt Janine would have misunderstood what I wrote.
@Tennessean
I read your comment TN, don’t need to re-read it. I just disagree. the law may have ‘targeted’ to allow people to carry guns into establishments that serve food and alcohol but it allows people to carry into bars……….
okay janine. This is friggin’ boring. Apparently you thought I said logic was in the law. I didn’t structure my sentence well enough to make myself clear. Especially for someone LOOKING to take exception with every friggin’ breath I take. (Hey! Maybe that could be a song??)
What I should have said is “The logic BEHIND the law is…” It is already against the law to be in possession of alcohol or inebriated AND be in possession of a firearm. I tried to state it in a somewhat humorous manner, (i.e. in case of invading foreigners) but the “logic” was that if you are at the local restaurant, having dinner with your family and some crazed gunman attacked or took hostages or whatever, then there would be a possibility there would be a sober, responsible individual with a firearm that could possibly rise to the occasion. I’d like to also note this came on the heels of several robberies/murders in local eateries. Also, it was a reaction to situations around the country (like Virginia Tech) where armed people go into “Gun Free” Zones and terrorize defenseless people at will.
Disagree as you will. But studies were done and data gathered to try to establish a dividing line between establishments that are predominantly eateries (more than half profits from food sales) and establishments that exist predominantly on the sales of alcohol. And contrary to what you say, carrying a firearm into an establishment that by definition is or was a “bar” is, was and remains against the law.
An effort was made to construct a “good” law. It was passed by a majority of our elected officials. Public support for the law was mixed, but came down decidedly on the side of passing the law.
But I must say, if I were a restaurant OR bar owner, I would prefer my customers not be armed. I would have joined in the suit to over turn.
Yes, the need to be locked and loaded in Applebee’s makes perfect sense to me.
Frances, It might if someone grabbed your child by the throat, put a gun against their head and held them hostage with the intent to do them harm. While you were enjoying your Sante Fe Salad.
Anyway, I didn’t say it made sense. Although I think a plausible argument can be made. I was simply trying to 1.) let you know there have been no mass shootings or wild west type shootouts in restaurants or parks since the law was passed and 2.) try to explain what I understood to be the logic behind the law.
Pity there can’t be a law to prohibit crazed gunmen from owning guns.
@TN
TN I did not think you said the logic was in the law. The argument that the logic is behind the law makes no practical sense. The law allows guns in bars. Period the end. That is why there was a case filed to clarify the law. That is why the Judge said the law was ambiguous. You can argue ‘logic behind the law’ all day long TN, but you and I both know some folks aren’t logical, that’s why there are laws set forth that define what can and cannot be done, so there is no ambiguity.
Logic behind the law isn’t a reasonable discussion point when speaking about the law. Perhaps if you had argued Legislative intent.
You Americans and your guns! Can someone please explain to me why anyone needs to own a handgun? And dont give me to protect my property or my family – where do you live? The Wild West?
How many more deaths by idiots obsessed with guns will there have to be before stricter gun control is introduced? I for one am getting extremely tired of the monikor that its people that kill people not guns, and that we need better control over the idiots rather than stricter gun control. If you take away someones right to own a firearm you remove the ability for idiots to easily possess one. Tennesseans argument about what if someone grabs your child and puts a gun against there head, firstly how many people do you know that this has happened too? And secondaly however unlikely it currently is, would be even more unlikely if you outlawed possession of handguns and the right to carry one.
People who drive to bars in cars
Often become DWIs
Like people who take guns to bars
Whiskey will arm a drunk’s replies.
– http://www.CitizenPoet.com
MB, only has to happen once to alter your life. We are living in a world now where an 8 year old can run 20 yards ahead of the group she is walking home from school with and wind up raped, dead and in a garbage dump somewhere.
janine, please. Give it up. I live in Tennessee right in the heart of where this has all transpired. I am pretty well informed on this one and you are simply in error.
@TN so you dont think that having hand guns band would lessen the risk of that happening?
MB, I think that banning handguns would ensure the law abiding citizens would be unarmed and helpless in the face of any criminal intrusion. I was speaking to the world we live in.
Tenn., I worry about your scenario of a child with a gun to the head. That child’s parent is the last person I want with a loaded gun. They would have so much adrenaline running and be in such a panic that I would worry about their ability to shoot straight or to realize that certain large and powerful magnum type handguns might not only go through a bad guy but might then travel past them to other innocent people.
I grew up with guns, was trained in their use, carried a hunter’s safety card from the age of 14 which is the first year you can carry one in Oregon. I later in life became a trained security officer in California. I have spoken with many police officers who back me up in saying that there is nothing worse than untrained, angry, fearful, mixed up civilians who think that carrying a firearm will solve any problem of violence. Even worse, a civilian who thinks he is trained, who then thinks that his gun is his salvation is every situation and who then uses it under the strain of every bad moment in life.
The other thing to consider is this. A gun gives a very unique situation. You don’t have to get in close. Easily concealable, easy to trigger, so powerful that temptation is severe to brandish it in either arrogance or just the idea of “scaring someone” with it. Adrenaline does funny things to one’s ability to aim correctly and really interferes with proper judgment and ability to think clearly. Even when you think you know all about using a gun, your emotions can make your sighting ability go haywire and the target you meant to shoot isn’t what gets hit.
If your opponent decides to fight you for the firearm and lunges at you, knocks you off balance or gets the upper hand by surprise or something in the area distracts you sufficiently, there goes your concentration and the opponent can take your gun from you or wrest it from your control before you know it. Then bad things happen. Things never intended. You or your loved ones become the unintended victims. The police have seen this too many times.
Even with all their training, they themselves do not like having to use their weapon and try not to use it if they can solve things with their brains instead.
Heaven help us all when the average citizen thinks they are Wyatt Earp in the Wild West! Police live in fear of things like this everywhere they go. I don’t blame them. Automatic weapons, concealable handguns …. these are not hunting or sporting weapons. They are designed only for killing humans. Lastly, ask any police officer and they will tell you that after having to use their weapon, they do have nightmares and that awful feeling of having killed a human being is one that does not go away all that easily and for some it never does.
Do you really want to have to deal with that? I think it would haunt you if you were ever the source of the loss of human life. And if it wouldn’t bother you….then I never want to see a gun in your possession!
Melody, needless to say, I disagree rather vehemently with virtually everything you say and feel on this subject.
But regardless of any “haunting feelings” I might experience, what would haunt me more would be standing helplessly by while someone brutalized a loved one because I ascribed to some Pollyanna Vision of the world where I chose to depend on smiley faced good will to protect myself and my loved ones.
I may never need the option. But in the event of the unlikely, I want…I DEMAND the option and RIGHT to protect myself and my loved ones.
Worry as you wish. But if you are ever visiting me, and someone intrudes on us with the intent of doing you harm, I will at least have the OPTION of possibly being able to save you from whatever horrors might be intended……or…..wait a minute. I DID say “loved ones”??
All human beings are loved by someone in this world!!! Smiling at the thought of how confused you seem to be about who You love! With such confusion in your head, I feel even more strongly that you should not be wielding a gun! Such confusion would speak strongly to you not carrying weapons! Too bad such fear seems to be constantly on your mind. Attacks are usually sudden and you won’t always have your gun right on you, so why have it? It’s no use having a gun if it you don’t wear it 24/7 on your person like cops do!
“The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.” Thomas Jefferson
@Tommy: That is one of the reasons why I believe in gun ownership rights. We can’t trust politicians. Not one of them really. But, the gun shows are selling many of them illegally & I hate the stockpiling of weapons too. I’ve owned a couple of guns in my life when I lived in a gun state. I never felt it was necessary to carry it around wherever I went. I used it for protection at home. (Anomaly)
Melody says, “It’s no use having a gun if it you don’t wear it 24/7 on your person like cops do!”
Tennessean says thanks for the suggestion. I believe you may be right.
Tommy, Shhhhhhh. You may make one of them actually do some research.