Mittster Tales

Mitt Romney / Paul Ryan - The 2 Stooges   :    http://mariopiperni.com/

Here’s a lovely little chat George Stephanopoulos had with Mitt Romney.

Romney: “No one can say my plan is going to raise taxes on middle-income people, because principle number one is (to) keep the burden down on middle-income taxpayers.”

Stephanopoulos: “Is $100,000 middle income?”

Romney: “No, middle income is $200,000 to $250,000 and less.”

Median household income in the U.S. is just over $50,000. I’m starting to believe the rumors that Romney really is an idiot…albeit, a rich idiot.

___

And this…

With the first presidential debate less than three weeks away, Mitt Romney is spending lots of time getting ready behind closed doors.  In his first comments on that debate prep, he told me that Sen. Rob Portman is a tough stand-in for a president who basically lies in debates.

“I think the challenge that I’ll have in the debate is that the president tends to, how shall I say it, to say things that aren’t true,” Romney said. “I’ve looked at prior debates.  And in that kind of case, it’s difficult to say, ‘Well, am I going to spend my time correcting things that aren’t quite accurate? Or am I going to spend my time talking about the things I want to talk about?”

Lovely. A serial liar is accusing his opponent of lying. This is a clear case of Romney protecting himself in advance from the mauling he’s going to take in those debates. He knows he won’t be able to defend his positions on tax cuts, health care, Medicare, immigration and foreign policy, so he’s pulling a Palin. He’ll only answer the questions he wishes to answer and even then, he’ll follow a carefully scripted set of talking points.

This guy’s evasiveness could not be more transparent. I hope he doesn’t think he’s fooling anyone.

___

We discovered yesterday that Mitt Romney asked for 10 years of tax returns from Paul Ryan but still refuses to make public more than two years of his own returns. The Obama campaign came out with this ad yesterday.

 

Despite the pounding Romney has taken on this issue from all sides, it’s become evident that he won’t be releasing any more returns…which just reinforces the belief that there must be something terribly ugly in those returns. Romney’s making a serious bid for Worst Presidential Candidate Ever honors.

___

The Two Stooges illustration is available for purchase on various products at the MarioPiperniDotCom store.

(The Romney source photograph is a Creative Commons licensed image from photographer Gage Skidmore. The Paul Ryan source image is a U.S. government work and therefore in the public domain.)

Follow MarioPiperniDotCom on Facebook, Twitter and Google+.
.

Comments

  1. E.A. Blair says:

    Maybe Romney should be asked to show his birth certificate – just to prove that it’s not a manufacturer’s warranty. Or worse.

  2. Karen Weston says:

    Romney: “No, middle income is $200,000 to $250,000 and less.”

    Say, what???? Not in my world!

    Looking forward to the debates — The President will make mincemeat out of Romney — and I think Mittens has much more to fear from the fact checkers!!

  3. Saint Stephen says:

    Mitt’s doing what Rethugs always do – project their illegal or unethical behavior onto the Dems.

  4. Sydney says:

    He is preparing! When Romney is faced with the truth about his policies which will be pointed out by President Obama, he won’t have to explain or answer to anything. He will just tell fox news that they were all lies. If the moderator asks him to explain a statement that he made in the past, he will just zip the lip because all the foxbots will know that the moderator is, of course, a well known lying Marxist who is In the tank for Obama as is all the MSM.

  5. GoldenSun says:

    @Mario, LMAO at the Larry & Moe = Romney & Ryan picture – EXCELLENT !

    and TRUE – lol !

  6. Gary D. says:

    These Two stooges outweigh the original Three stooges in the fine art of Stoogery.

  7. JOHN LIMING says:

    Dear E.A. Blair,

    You might have suggested public disclosure of the birth certificate as a joke or something but I think that every candidate for any office should be compelled to show theirs since such a big deal was made about it with Obama. But good luck with getting such disclosure. In this case we can’t even get details about any plans for the future should the election be won by that – - – camp.

  8. George Washington says:

    You all worship Clinton-how do you exalt a man who sleeps with anyone except his wife? Don’t you care at all about morals? Of course not, you’re Democrats. Go read about how great NAFTA was for this country? How about the repeal of Glass-Steagall. How about that the Robert Byrd, who Obama was so proud to eulogize, was a member of…the KKK and a Democrat. But that’s okay, he’s a Democrat all is forgiven. You do know Obama is worth about 10 Million dollars, he isn’t poor. How do you feel about the house deal he got with Tony Rezko (who’s now in jail). How do you feel about all the lobbyists Obama hired when he said he would not (more corrupt Chicago thuggery). How do you feel about all the czars he hired? How do you feel about him closing Gitmo (another campaign promise–in case you don’t know it’s still open). How do you feel about him doing nothing but campaign, golf and bball? How do you like paying $4 for gas? I remember the vile things you said about GWB when gas was $3 a gallon-why no public outcry now? How about the higher grocery prices? You all called GWB a dummy after Yale released his grades-Obama isn’t very smart either-why no Harvard or Columbia grades? We know he wasn’t a good student at Occidental. Oh, how do you feel about the lies about his mother’s cancer? She was misdiagnosed in INDONESIA where she lived. How about his lie that her medical bills were not paid here? I guess it’s okay when Obama lies. He ate dog are you okay with that? He hit a female student in school-okay with that? You all worship this guy blindly in a way you’ve never worshipped any other politician. To me, it’s pretty sick. You treat him like he’s some sort of rock star (he’s not). I’m just glad if someone he wins this time (he’ll cheat, he’s got to get the illegal vote and of course busing in idiots who can’t even find their way to the poll but know how to get welfare, free food, and free cell phones) this is it-no more Obama. He and his family are free to crawl back under the rock he came from.

  9. Margaret C. Smith says:

    Dear George,
    You’re frothing! Calm down. Breathe! Take a happy pill, go to sleep. Things will look better in the morning.
    Actually, we are all quite aware that President O is no prize. However, in this particular, pitiful situation, he’s the pick of the litter (and a mighty sorry litter it is!). We are just trying to motivate ourselves to get down to the polls and vote for “Dumb” so that “Dumber” is not elected. Ho Hum……

  10. E.A. Blair says:

    I think we’re hearing from the third Stooge.

  11. I thought I’d let that last comment from George go through if for no other reason than to point out what ignorance sounds like when given a crayon and writing paper.

  12. speedbump says:

    I think we’re hearing from the third Stooge.

    LOL!!!

  13. JOHN LIMING says:

    Dear George:

    I think I am feeling that “Christian” Love that all Righties are known for.

    I have heard some nut whacks from Cob-serva-topia ask, “Why do you Liberals hate Conservatives so much?”

    Actually, George, “Hate” has been more the province of The Right of late.

    Liberals do not hate Conservatives.

    Liberals pity some Conservatives and feel sorry for them because they seem to be so totally lost and alienated from reality sometimes.

    If you need a look at what “Hate” might look like, consider the vitriol of that rant just a couple of paragraphs behind this comment… the one that begins with “You all worship Clinton…”

  14. Sydney says:

    You NAILED It E.A.!!! Bravo!

  15. occupyalways says:

    Just another confirmation that Mitt is out of touch with the poor and middle class. He doesn’t even know what constitutes the middle class salary range.

    Above George Washington should change his name as he is not even worthy to pronounce it. Such bad-mouthing is in another league than this august group.

    Oh yes Remember that Obama is ready to pay his fair share of taxes by amending the tax code to a minimum 30%. He walks the talk

  16. dinamic says:

    Well George Washington that was a really lovely bunch of blather, not worth rebuttal, since you already know it all and have your mind firmly slammed shut . Just one point that I can’t resist making:

    Your remark and I assume strong belief that liberals have no morals. You claim morals by trying too force your beliefs on others. Liberals take morals much more personally. We believe that our morals are what we should live by, not what we should use to lord it over or to excoriate others.

    Mario I love the stooges graphic it should become a classic.

  17. Cheryl says:

    During the dabates, Mitt should just stand there and never open his mouth. It would serve him better.

    I have never seen someone so out of touch and so content to remain so. The Kennedys were rich, but in touch with average people.

  18. Karen Weston says:

    George — get a grip! Any doctor will tell you that all of that hate and anger is detrimental to your health!!

  19. Sydney says:

    Instead of taking control of the republican party and steering them back to their roots, Romney is letting Limbaugh, fox new and the evangelicals control him. It is almost like he is trying to prove to them that he can be just as crazy as Sarah Palin. I will hear one of the talking crazy heads shout some unbelievable conspiracy theory in the morning, and by the afternoon the same words are coming out of Romneys mouth.

    Mario..I can imagine all the nut job posts that you stop from going through, AND FOR THAT, I THANK YOU!

  20. Cheryl says:

    Agree with Sydney.

    Mario, please don’t let them through. It’s the type kind of garbage you hear when Faux News is on. They just spout talking points, with not a shred of logic or reality attached. They don’t listen to facts and do not want them intruding on their beliefs. I know people like that exist in large numbers, because there had to be enough warm bodies to vote in the Bachmanns, the Allen Wests, etc. – but when I read or hear their insanity, it makes me depressed.

  21. Naomi666 says:

    My suggestion is that Mitt’s s tax returns will reveal his poly-amory life — maybe three “sister-wives” and a large litter of Mitten’s Kittens?

    Pretty good…for a robot, that is.

  22. Sydney says:

    Naomi,
    In 2009 over 30 thousand Americas were determined to be committing tax evasion, all relations to Swiss bank accounts. The justice department offered a one time amnesty program if they would pay all taxes that were owed to the USA. Had Romney been part of this group, it would be reflected on his taxes.

  23. dinamic says:

    I think you make a very good quess there Sydney.

    I am totally appalled by a man who wants us to give him our trust and the honor of leading our nation, but is so arrogant as to believe that his income taxes are none of our business. I see the Romney’s as believing themselves to be “entitled” to the job and I see Mitt as wanting the title more than the actual job of governing the country. Another GWB?

  24. Sydney says:

    My guess is that Romney and his advisors are betting the house that their crazy group of evangelicals,,teapots, racist, misinformed and ignorant “groupies” are in the majority. They only associate and listen to like minded Americans, having not a clue that there are many who see through their bullshit. I believe that they are in reality, the minority. I hope to god that they are the minority.

  25. Carol says:

    I waited to see if someone would defend the President following Margaret C. Smith…

    “Actually, we are all quite aware that President O is no prize. However, in this particular, pitiful situation, he’s the pick of the litter (and a mighty sorry litter it is!). We are just trying to motivate ourselves to get down to the polls and vote for “Dumb” so that “Dumber” is not elected. Ho Hum……”

    I find myself disappointed. So, let me say I’m NOT disappointed.

    I fought hard for healthcare…for myself and for younger kids like my daughter with autism who were being kicked off their parents’ policies for a “pre-existing condition” and the many who became ill and were similarly denied coverage….for the adults in the same boat…for those unable to get insurance from work, like WalMart…for the woman with cancer whose life has become a bit easier and the young boy who has gotten medical attention for his heart condition…and the millions with a wide variety of healthcare nightmares to tell…for Seniors who once fell into the donut hole…I could go on and on. Read Wendell Potter, insurance industry whistle-blower.
    Did I get ALL I hoped for? NO. Am I satisfied that after nearly a century of trying, America now has a blueprint to amend and strengthen in the future? YES. I also support Gov. Shumlin/VT in his efforts to create the template for single-payer for others to follow.
    I also agree with and support this Administration’s stand on WOW, on Foreign Policy as we’ve been discussing here, the efforts to support American manufacturing and renewable energy (the largest investment to date), the extension of unemployment benefits, the extension of Medicaid, efforts to improve public education, help for Veterans looking for work and mental-health services they so desperately need, Michelle and Jill’s efforts to confront obesity,

    I’ll bet you’ll find something you either were unaware of or had forgotten here: B4B News

  26. Carol says:

    I tried to amend the previous comments…so let me do that here:

    Michelle and Jill’s efforts to Join Forces, connecting communities with their Veterans and/or their families.

    Actually, this has been quite an active first term, if you’ll go and look at Obama’s Accomplishments…so far.
    You’re likely to find some surprises as this President doesn’t beat his chest much…or be reminded of things you’ve forgotten.
    So, this Fall when I visit the polls, I will NOT be voting for “Dumb” to deny “Dumber”…and should enough others agree with me and we have four more years, I will continue to actively “lobby” for the things I want and that I think America needs…care to join me?

  27. JOHN LIMING says:

    Carol says:
    September 16, 2012 at 9:37 pm

    I waited to see if someone would defend the President following Margaret C. Smith…

    I have known many people who have no idea of which side of their bread the butter is on and who would be the first to bitch and moan if something the President had achieved for them were to be taken away. In my view, the “Dumb” that is referred to here may be nothing more than an unaware projecting or something of that nature because Obama is smart enough to have gotten all the he has managed to do accomplished in spite of all the obstructionism…. I hope that the commenter who used the unfortunate tag of “Dumb” in this instance does not actually use any of the benefits achieved by this President because that would create a whole new classification of “Dumb” (The kind of dumb that bites the hand that feeds it) and that would be a real tragedy.

  28. Carol says:

    Thanks John…I just revisited the list of accomplishments…long and revealing…containing MANY I hadn’t heard the President “exclaim” about on the TV machine. I wish more people would look and thereby have a more rational and complete picture of the totality, yes, despite the unprecedented obstructionism.

    HA! Right! Maybe Margaret, along with millions of others, is unaware of the benefits she may be enjoying…there’s the rub….along with those who harbor ill will despite being “better off than they were 4 years ago”!

  29. JOHN LIMING says:

    Carol:

    The millions who are unaware of the benefits they are enjoying have been bombarded by Right Wing propaganda that has the sole agenda of confusing America and bringing as many citizens as they can to a state of denial about this President – - this “Not one of us” – - this “Other” – - -this “Imposter who is not legally in the White House” and all the other damnable lies of the far Right Extreme.

    I saw the same thing under the previous Conservative Administration – - constant bombarding with bombastic propaganda to make “The Decider” look like God’s Gift and to make all dissenters “Unpatriotic” or “Anti-American” while all the time, they were spending the national treasure recklessly and creating the very situation they are now in such denial about.

    Americans seem to be able to be swayed fairly easily on issues if enough noise is made and if enough money is brought into the equation.

    Some are simply innocent lambs who follow where the herd tends to wander – - – even if it is over a cliff- – - which is a distinct possibility if Righties get their mitts on the government again.

    I knew one individual who lost everything he owned under the last Conservative Administration but he had been so brainwashed that he just kind of pooh-pooed his situation in an outward show of causality and said idiotic things like, “Yeah but I voted for the least of all evils, didn’t I?”

    This level of obtuse is far too prevalent in America I am afraid because not all that many of us are concerned enough to study the functioning of government or to really consider the effect and consequences of the wrong choices we make.

    The Extreme Conservative Right knows about this phenomenon and their multi-million-dollar Fifth Avenue public relations types and ad agencies know how to play it to their best advantage.

    I doubt that too many people even can tell you if they are better off now than they were four years ago.

    I hope they do not get the chance to find out how well off they will be four years from now if they make the mistake of trusting The Far Right again like they did back in 2000 and 2004.

  30. Carol says:

    You’re so “right”. I’m reading George Lakoff and his new partner, Elisabeth Wehling’s latest offering, The Little Blue Book. The Right has mastered the art of framing, currently via Frank Luntz and pinpointed the moral words that sway folks to their ideology, regardless of economic consequences (being better off)…screaming FREEDOM, LIBERTY, SOCIALISM, Marxist, Muslim, ILLEGITIMATE…over and over again, yes, supported by big dollars…and blinding voters to any rational discussion of policy, government or human/civil rights. As far as your friend, Lakoff describes the philosophy, dogma and obeissance to power and privilege even those who LOSE it continue to hold dear…the wealthy are omnipotent and outside the law…oh, and if I work hard enough, trample enough people in my pursuit and define myself and my life’s purpose in monetary terms, I, too can be one of them.
    The CHOICE this season is truly one of dramatic, meaningful and enduring proportions.

  31. Sydney says:

    Carol,
    I went back and reread Miss Smiths dumb and dumber post and it still strikes me as coming from a person who is not that knowledgeable about politics and the current political parties and has fallin for “both party’s are the same” propaganda line. Someone like that is just jumping in to the fray because they have nothing better to do, are not serious about the state of our government and just wanted to join the conversation with their uneducated opinion in order to enlighten us with the truth as she sees it. Posters without facts to back up their opinion don’t deserve a response. They add nothing to the conversation .

  32. Margaret C. Smith says:

    I do not denigrate the POTUS’ accomplishments. However, i am terribly aware of the fact that Pres Obama is very much on the side of the multinationals, Big Oil, Big Pharma, Wall Street and mega-banks. He supports expansion of Executive Powers, indefinite detention of political and “war-time” prisoners, government downsizing, privatization of Medicare and Social Security, trade agreements that continue to outsource American jobs, fracking, the nuclear power industry, corporate welfare, GMOs, corporate and bankster welfare, charter schools (privatizing public schooling), expanding Defence spending and continual warfare (here we come, Iran) He may express “sympathy” for some of the “Occupy” goals, but he does NOT support “Occupy” in any way, shape or form. He does NOT support Whistleblowing (in spite of statements to the contrary made while he was a Senator). Did he show up (as per his pro-union campaign speeches) for the Wisconsin Uprising and Labor? No, he did not. And, BTW, whatever happened to those “invisible” working-class, working in poverty class, and plain, old poor people in this Administration’s playbook? Are we the red-headed stepchild at this great family reunion? I’m hearing a roar of silence regarding the largest economic category (and growing!) in the U.S.of A.. While paying lip-service to transparency, the Obama Administration shows a marked preference towards secrecy and keeping things from the public. I have heard him called “Assassin-in-Chief” for what I thought are pretty obvious reasons.
    I am very much a Progressive-with a-Capital-P and, while Obama’s campaign speeches were full of progressive goals and promises, he has shown himself to be a conservative-with-a-small-c. St. Reagan would approve even though his adoring public does not. The difference between Obama’s performance and John McCain’s campaign promises are minimal.
    Most environmental groups are giving the Obama Administration a C+ for its performance in those areas.
    Next we will hear about Republican and Blue Dog obstructionism. While this is true (and frankly, I can’t figure it, seeing as how so many of his proposals have originated in conservative think-tanks), it is not the primary reason for failure of liberal and progressive legislation. Had Mr. Obama stood up for his base during the incredibly shoddy butchering of ACORN, the vicious attacks on Van Jones (a real Progressive), the baseless smears of Shirley Sherrod; had he, at least, allowed debate on Single-Payer or Government Option health care during the ACA sessions; had he supported the progressive and liberal Democrats instead of throwing them to the wolves in order to pander to the Tea-Party, neo-cons and religious fundamentalists; had he given the American public some genuine action based on his campaign rhetoric instead of allowing the Tea Party and ultra-right Republican minority to determine legislation and news values, the Dems would have maintained the majority and our current political conversations today would be very different. So, yeah, I think Obama is a ‘Grade A’ fool for allowing all those opportunities for change and hope to go down the drain. Has he gotten any better with time? IMHO, not at implementing comprehensive and meaningful legislative change. But perhaps his goal is to have us go precisely in the direction we are headed in. Maybe he is a wolf in sheep’s clothing, completing the corporate and bankster takeover of the People’s Government while we silly Democrats cheer him on because he’s “one of ours”. If this is the case, then I must admit he’s a genius.
    BTW, I’m a taxpayer just like the rest of you. I am entitled to educate myself regarding politicians and their varying performances, just like you. And, furthermore, I am permitted to debate said performances, ditto. So. Like it or lump it, I am entitled to benefit from good legislation and suffer from bad legislation, just like the rest of us in these-yar United States.
    Mr Obama is (arguably) a better choice than Mittney and I will, not enthusiastically but always dutifully, cast my vote for the POTUS one more time. And while he continues to do what he does, I’ll be working for meaningful and comprehensive change and not just cheering from the side lines. How about y’all?

  33. Margaret C. Smith says:

    Some of you’uns get downright pissy when a body doesn’t agree with you. All that name-calling and character defamation……. Sheesh, a girl can’t even speak her mind around here without getting insulted and dissed. If I wanted to have uncivil debates, I would go see the “Dark Side” instead of mp.com.
    Of course, as we all know, character assassination is the last resort of the……………
    You can finish the sentence yourselves.

  34. Sydney says:

    Margaret I apologize. You are up on the politics of the day. Now being a progressive myself, I would of loved to,see left turns by Obama, but I am also willing to meet the otherside partway, unfortunatly the republican party of today wants no part of that, and they could be dangerously close to implementing policies that will take this country back to a place and time that exists only in their imagination. Karl Rove has said in the past that he was working on a plan that would put republicans in complete control of this country as a majority party, and keep it that way for decades. They used the election of the first black president to their advantage, causing a groundswell of racist brainwashed masses, who are funded by self serving billionaires. These masses were absolutly swayed by religious, historical, and rightwing propaganda that Obama was the Antichrist, Marxist, communist, leader, here to destroy the country. The republicans used lies and fairytales to frighten already frightened people to HATE this president. I feel that Obama had to walk a very fine line, that this was very close to being a tipping point which could of pushed more Americans into the plutocratic conservative ideology. These people actually believed Obama did an apology tour, was coming for their guns and wanted to become a dictator. Now, had he done anything viewed as too liberal, the GOP might have convinced once rational people to join the fight to save our constitution and country from this unknown black man who was now president. Sooo I think that he HAD to walk a fine line, and I believe that his mistake was not understanding how easily the GOP was able to dupe people. I have never seen a political party pull almost half the country into their delusion, and although any progressive could find something about Obama’s presidency not progressive enough, the republican party of today is truly dangerous, and would, if given a chance, turn this country into a thirld world nation, that would effect us all.

  35. My guess is the Mittens is going to pull a Palin – remember when she came on stage and, instead of answering the question asked, pivoted back to what she wanted to talk about? That will be Romney’s strategy. He’ll make some comment that what Obama is saying is “untrue” and then pivot to his talking points. We’re not going to get anything more out of him than we’ve gotten already – and, if he becomes the “moderate” during the debates, they’ll simply punt afterwards and return to their base…who will accept that it was necessary in order to fool the few voters they need to win.

    Margaret, while I agree with some – perhaps most of what you say, I feel the need to make a couple of comments.

    1) if anyone thought Obama was anything but a centrist when they voted for him, that was their unfortunate mistake. It was clear to me he was not the Progressive we wanted, nor was Clinton. This country is not ready to elect a progressive yet. And that’s our fault. We need to educate.

    2) Gitmo is still there because of the GOP, not Obama – he tried – I remember well the complete and utter outrage of people like Rep Peter King.

    3) you include the privatization of Medicare and SS in your list of failures — I’m pretty up on these things and have no information supporting that. If you do, please share it with us.

    4) probably his most important campaign “promise” was to change the rhetoric in D.C. — he tried – and tried and tried — much to the dismay of all of us thinking, just forget it , they will NOT cooperate. And, in fact, they turned that promise against him deliberately — you hear them every day go on about how he was supposed to change Washington? They made the conscious decision to NOT allow that to happen. So brandishing the “hopey changey” thing that Palin spouts is something we should not buy into. When we accept their rhetoric, THEY win. And we’re really good at doing just that. I even hear Democrats call it the “Democrat” Party. It just makes me want to scream when we do this.

    5) yes, mistakes were made – what did you expect from a two year Senator not even dry behind the ears when he took over the oval office? His biggest mistake was doing what all Presidents do (and Romney is doing now) choosing advisor from Clinton’s administration. He should have pulled people in from the outside…but the problem with that is that they, too, would not have had an understanding of D.C. politics. So he relied on Clinton’s old group – people like Larry Summers, who should have been kicked to the curb without a thought. The smartest move he made was getting Biden on the ticket – he’d been in the Senate long enough to know the ropes and to have built the relationships that were needed — but even that didn’t help because the GOP REFUSED to lift a finger to help Obama get this country righted again.

    6) and when the TeaParty won the House in 2010 – just what was he supposed to do? We sat home and let them take the House – we didn’t have his back. You can blame him, but it was us who gave up. We stomped our feet and got mad because we didn’t get single payer (and as much as i wanted it, it was NEVER going to happen – nor was the Public Option ever going to get through the Senate). If you will recall ACA only passed using reconciliation, not with 60 votes, but with 56 – we’d lost Teddy by then and our Blue Dogs abandoned us.

    I’m shocked he’s managed to get as much done as he has, albeit much of major legislation like Dodd-Frank watered down. But they are a foundation upon which to build. And a second administration will give him four more years to accomplish much more. All that needed done could not be done in four years. He’s laid the foundation for more to come. And, like you, I’m willing to give it to him…even with the disappointments. Let’s hope he can rectify some of that with 4 more years! Which is exactly why Wall Street is scared shitless he will be re-elected and the vast majority of them are sending their money to Romney.

    Let’s not, however, accept the GOPs revisionist history as our own.

  36. Margaret C. Smith says:

    Agreed. Living in the Southern Appalachians has made me quite aware of all these attitudes. The problem is racism, pure and simple. They may deny it; however, it is what it is. Another theory of mine is the fact that working and poverty class Southerners are kept very well drugged by the medical establishment. I’m not sure how it works with the Northern and Western states, but down here, it seems that 6 out of every 10 people are kept in near-idiot condition by their own doctors. It is my understanding that the same thing is being done to urban, school-age Black kids. Critical thinking ability seems to decrease in response to increased dosages of psychotropic “medication”. How convenient, eh?
    Life for the working classes and poor can be quite brutal. Due to “Right to Work” laws (more like a “Right to Starve While Servicing the Man”), pay is pitiful, benefits are somewhere in between inadequate to nonexistent, and working conditions are abysmal. People around here have terrible health and few resources to improve.
    BTW, Obama is the man who is behind the demolition of The People’s Mail Delivery Service, the USPS. His goal is to lower wages, benefits and hours so that it becomes so miserable and inefficient that the government will be “forced” to subcontract mail delivery to commercial interests such as UPS and FedEx.
    My plan is to try to get as many progressive Dems and Independents into county, state and Federal offices as possible, as well as working with my community to politically educate and empower The People. If we keep doing as we have always done, we will keep getting what we have always gotten.
    It seems to me that Romney wants to turn us into India and Obama wants a society like that in “Brave New World”. Frankly, I’m not impressed with either “Vision”.
    And hey! Thanks for the acknowledgment. I was beginning to feel unloved and unwanted. (**Sniff**!)

  37. Sydney says:

    Margaret
    I just want to address your misinformed statement blaming Obama for the troubles the post office is experiencing. This is completely a republican made mess. In the lame duck session when the republicans had majorities, in their efforts to privatize as much as they can, they ran into a problem with the PO because it is protected in our constitution, so they had to create a problem. Two republican congressman who received campaign donations from FedEx and ups required that the PO PREFUND their retirement programs for employees not even yet born by paying to the government 75 billion over a several year period, at 5 billion a year.
    I don’t know where you get your information but it seems that you do have a touch of the conspiracy theory in you.
    Maybe someone else will tackle some of your other statements.
    Now, you live in a red state and your living conditions are the direct result of REPUBLICAN policies, I don’t understand how in gods name that when the GOP is talking about cutting off the lazy, welfare sucking parisites that live off the government, that people in your state DON’T REALIZE THAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT THEM!
    So, that drug problem that you appear to be having in your state might soon go away if the republicans win this election, amd they do away with Medicaid. Also if there’d are people with too much food, the republicans will fix that also by cutting foodstamps. SS disability and welfare will also be cut, so you will probably get to see much more of you neighbors as they wander the streets.
    I thought that you were a very liberal democrat that was disappointed in Obama. Now it seems that you are a believer of the GOP propaganda, who is so discusted at what the republican legislation has done to your state that you believe that voting for obama is the lesser of two evils.

  38. JOHN LIMING says:

    Ms. Smith said: “…BTW, Obama is the man who is behind the demolition of The People’s Mail Delivery Service, the USPS. His goal is to lower wages, benefits and hours so that it becomes so miserable and inefficient that the government will be “forced” to subcontract mail delivery to commercial interests such as UPS and FedEx….”

    Sorry my dearie! Outsourcing American Enterprises to private subcontractors is strictly a Repuglican thing!

    So, you got that one wrong!

    The USPS is in trouble only because of a Repug bill that demands outrageous investments in a retirement program – - -one that has long since been over financed – - -

    It is the Rightie Tighties who are licking their chops over privatizing the USPS, like it is the rightie tighties who lick their greedy chops over privatizing everything.

    I have a cousin who lives in Appalachia and I am not so sure the Medicos keep the locals drugged or not, but I do know that my cousin would far rather have her Buckeye doctors and has often said that she wishes she had never moved “Down H’yar” because these doctors don’t seem to know what they are doing.

    Your comments reveal an actual truth – - – The conditions your are describing in the area where you live are highly representative of what happens when people trust the Republicans.

    In the words of my friend from West Virginia, “You got that one right.”

  39. GoldenSun says:

    GOP lied us into a decades long TRILLION DOLLAR war,
    they lied when they said “tax cuts would pay for themselves”,
    they lied when they said “tax cuts to the rich would create jobs”,
    they lied when they ran on a platform of JOBS JOBS JOBS and a MASSIVE amount of Republicans were elected and there is still no jobs but plenty of legislation against abortion, women’s rights, workers rights, voters rights.

    The GOP has ruined our economy, divided our country, weakened our status in the world and have prolonged the suffering of the American people, spending billions to make “one man fail”.

    TIME FOR THE NATION TO BEGIN THE HEALING – GET RID OF THE GOP !!

  40. GoldenSun says:

    I believe it was Sydney that stated that the GOP actions felt like a hostile takeover of the United States – most people are not aware how true that is.

    We watch the news thinking it’s about elections and votes but the GOP, lead by Karl Rove, as seen on PBS this past Sunday, have had plans that merge the special interest money of billionaires, Super Pacs and other resources to strategically plan the culmination of their goal. The takeover of a Nation by the elite few to use as a money making machine with American citizens reduced to small unimportant cogs in it’s function.

    To paraphrase Sydney (who is absolutely correct) – “Karl Rove has said in the past that he was working on a plan that would put Corporations, in league with top GOP operatives, in complete control of this country as a majority party, and keep it that way for decades. “

  41. Margaret C. Smith says:

    Dear Diane,
    This is an exerpt from a Naked Capitalism article by Matt Stoller (great site, a little technical but they do a great job researching and vetting their facts while cutting through the crap):

    “….no one on either side is asking what the plan is for the next term. For Obama, his team is going into rooms of donors and shouting “Supreme Court”, while mumbling something about bipartisanship and $4 trillion, or Simpson-Bowles. What this means is that term two of the Obama White House will be organized around cutting entitlements.

    The White House already tried cutting all three main entitlement programs, last year (cuts to Medicaid are actually cuts to Obamacare, for what it’s worth, since an expansion of Medicaid was a key plank of the new health care law).

    The White House agreed to cut at least $250 billion from Medicare in the next 10 years and another $800 billion in the decade after that, in part by raising the eligibility age. The administration had endorsed another $110 billion or so in cuts to Medicaid and other health care programs, with $250 billion more in the second decade. And in a move certain to provoke rebellion in the Democratic ranks, Obama was willing to apply a new, less generous formula for calculating Social Security benefits, which would start in 2015.

    Going after entitlements is in fact a tradition of Democratic politicians since the 1980s. The post-WWII model of dealing with entitlements was to expand them as a way of boosting aggregate demand. But as Carter, Reagan and Volcker ushered in an era of Wall Street greed and austerity, that trend reversed. In the early 1980s, Speaker of the House Tip O’Neil collaborated with Ronald Reagan to raise taxes on the poor and middle class with a “grand bargain” around Social Security. Later on, Bill Clinton had his go at the programs, with an even more aggressive plan to destroy the remains of New Deal liberalism.

    One of the little known political stories of the late 1990s is how Bill Clinton tried to work with Newt Gingrich to cut Social Security for recipients and pour some of the Social Security trust fund into the booming stock market. Clinton was willing to oppose the liberal wing of his party to cut a deal, and accept Republican demands for private accounts and a higher retirement age. Gingrich was willing to let Clinton succeed at doing so. And Clinton put Erskine Bowles, a conservative Democrat, in charge of the effort.”

    Obama VOLUNTARILY put Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid on the cutting table. The Republicans DID NOT ASK for that, although they were real happy to oblige Obama when he did it.
    Had a Republican Administration attempted to do what the past two Democrat Administrations have done, our rank-and-file Democrats would have been up in arms. Apparently, it’s OK if your “Home Team” does it? Does your “need to believe” trump actual facts and figures (reminds me of the “Dark Side”, again)? Y’all are sailing down that ancient Egyptian river, called Denial. And I now stand down from my assumption that Dems are more thoughtful and reasonable and less knee-jerk and reactionary than Repubs.
    The whole bunch of these politicians are up to NO GOOD and it will NOT be to our benefit to let them slide. It was never our job to have Obama’s back. It is his job to take care of The People’s business. And many of us People have been hollering at our elected Representatives to let them know how we want our business to be taken care of (per Obama’s “Make me do right” speech). Unfortunately, like many die hard Repubs, rank-and-file Dems are ignoring what the White House is actually doing in order to believe what he says (and there is a huge credibility gap here). Perhaps had those Dems (instead of just leaving it up to the progressives) paid attention to the man behind the curtain and spoken up accordingly, things might be a little different, today. But, then again, maybe not. As it is, The People lose, regardless of who wins the election.
    It is past time for us to wake up.

  42. john liming says:

    It is like anything else – - once someone gets something in their head, there is no changing them. I have a friend who lost everything he owned because of Republican financial manipulation and he still supports them as if they were some kind of infallible Divine.

    My thing is that if people have the means whereby a few losses do not bother them, then by all means let them lose their rear ends and go on their merry way believing in their fairy tales.

    I know the truth!

    Millions voted for Obama and millions do not have the capacity to make grevious errors in my book. I think he has done a great job and I plan to give him my confidence for another 4 big ones. His approval ratings are up again and so far he is leading the polls in favorability among likely voters.

    So no matter how much seemingly reasoned bull is slung about Obama, he is The President, he has been effective in what he has been able to do and he needs the chance to continue the good works that he has begun.

    All arguments to the contrary are little more than attempts to confuse issues and to confuse people and to plant doubt.

    This one single statement out of the bowels of that post above is a reversal of fact – - – (“…Going after entitlements is in fact a Democrat tradition since the 1980s”) — that is a total misrepresentation of fact. It has always been the Republicans who want to mess with entitlements. It is the Democrats who have always defended them.

    That one error invalidates that entire God-Awfully long melenge of words presented here as far as I am concerned.

  43. Sydney says:

    Ok I’m gonna get a little snarky here.
    If anyone wants to refute Margaret’s post, have at it. I’m done.
    There are times that she appears to be a knowledgable political poster and they she will say something in the line of “of course we all know that Obama is an alien from Jupiter, here to destroy the planet”, and they we realize that she is not what she appears to be….at all.

  44. john liming says:

    Dear Sydney:

    I’m going to get a little snarky myself and say, “Why go to the trouble of refuting when nothing is being said in the first place?”

    Wasted motion!-

  45. Sydney says:

    Every once in a while, in order to keep our heads from exploding, a little snark must flow.

  46. Carol says:

    Margaret…it’s nice to see another West-By-God-Virginian here…you the native and me, the “transplanted native” city girl from Cleveland, Ohio, living peacefully in Buckhannon on the tiny farm I imagined, with my two aging rescue horses…amongst the fearful yet determined Progressives, the established “Dem” Party and the bat-shit crazies. I see an attitude of second-class citizenry, having been beaten down by Big Coal and other forces for generations, many of their predecessors having emigrated from oppressive circumstances long ago…that would be BIG ENERGY Corporatism from the Right. I see an attitude of “extreme independence”..from WV’s rugged past and the Libertarian wing of the Right. I see the Evangelicals siding with the Santorum wing…of the Right. I see the racist bigotry (I was nearly decked at a local store for my Obama stickers). I see the twisted rhetoric of the pols who call themselves Dems yet fabricate issues like Obama’s WAR ON COAL for votes. I’m grateful not to have graduated my son from local schools. I’ve found much to love about this state…politics is not one of those things. As far as doctors go, I recently hear rumblings of one of our locals scamming Medicare- Medicaid…perhaps the President’s efforts and historic successes at curbing such “waste and abuse” will make local headlines…otherwise, I’ve found a couple who seem to have some sense. I won’t begin about the hospital system, especially having known the glorious Cleveland Clinic in my past life. As a Senior, I dread a major illness. I stay away from “organized medicine” as much as I can.

    If you want to rant about Dems, please take on the State Party…the likes of Manchin, Tomblin et. al. If you haven’t heard of Howard Swint, running as hard and fast as he can against Shelley Moore-Capito, please visit his site, educate your neighbors and grab some yard signs (If you’re in the Second District). Send a few bucks to Sue Thorn. Start a local petition to amend Citizens. Rally around issues. Do as you plan…start the process locally.

    If you don’t know Doris Irwin from Princeton, you need to. Find her at 304-921-2616 or email at dorisirwinmobile@yahoo.com. She’s active, articulate and patient and will likely be a “comrade”, sharing her philosophy and fighting alongside you for Progressive values and policy.

    That said, I see “far left” anger born out of hundreds of years of oppression. At least you ended up in the Progressive column instead of the Fundamentalist sector. I see the impatience of MANY who are overwhelmed and fiercely eager for the “change we were promised”. I also hold faith that we are indeed coming into a Progressive era (we all have our daydreams) toward which the current President is only the first step. America doesn’t lurch left. Big money dictates. We must join up with and encourage Occupy ideas. The President indeed heard the message and the nation was directed away from painful austerity….so far. Allow me to direct you to The Obama Diary, the passionate pragmatics’ blog, where you will find a list of additional bloggers…visit WTF has Obama done for ME lately…tune in to the many Progressive sites and movements. Get the facts straight. There’s plenty to argue about, born out of the seemingly unending oppression of the Right, Corporate America and Karl Rove…but we must move the COUNTRY with us…case in point, the “miraculous grass-roots Tea Party, quickly funded (if not instigated by) and directed by Dick Armey and forces…direct your anger toward ALEC, which Manchin joined along with a handful of Blues, the Koch Brothers and Citizens United, which the President seeks to amend. Fight for Democratic leadership for the future of the Supreme Court.
    Here let me add that the President instituted the first “tax the rich” initiative in ACA, on “designer” policies…perhaps a small but nevertheless encouraging step toward his plan to eliminate at least part of the Bush top-heavy tax cuts. I know, he capitulated…now the country is behind a FAIR DEAL. Journalists have recently spoken about the New New Deal that was the Recovery Act…there’s a book by that title just out or soon to be released. Watch Rachel and UP with Chris Hayes.
    I know I wasn’t dreaming when I heard Obama say, out loud, on camera, that the simplest way to fix Social Security is to raise the cap…making it solvent for 75 years. Bernie Sanders heard it. Floating the idea? Appeasing the Left? We’ll see. As for Medicare, the “savings” he “stole” have been pumped back into the program…subsidies to Advantage plans have been drawn back, the program is showing record applicants and the cost is down. The donut hole is being closed. After you visit Obama Accomplishments, hopefully you’ll see the multitude of changes, important and unheralded changes, that this Administration has put forth. These are NOT nothing. Our huge and diverse country moves slowly and painfully, dragging those who cling to “the past” behind, kicking and screaming.
    Aside from Obama’s temperament, his pragmatism and patience, I believe he’s wicked smart and has great long-range vision. In addition to that, as was alluded to earlier, please “study” the “black politicians manual for effective and agreeable governance”…this President had a large mandate of excited supporters, some with visions of sugarplums in their heads…we could make of his lofty rhetoric whatever pleased us. As was alluded to earlier, our first Black President could NOT govern, even if he wanted to, as the angry black man pushing far left policy. He’s laying the groundwork, pressing ahead where he can and realistically re-evaluating the options as needed. It looks as though the country’s majority approve. Is there reason for disappointment? CERTAINLY. Until we do something about the dollars, the lobbyists and the Corporations who would rule the world, that will not change as quickly as we wish.
    Speaking for myself, as an “old white woman” who lived through the race riots up close, I found myself torn between our first WOMAN President and Barack. Having been disgusted with Bubba, it was easy for me to believe the cautious voices about a Hillary/Bill Administration, about her being too divisive a candidate and all the other justifications…I followed my heart and felt vindicated as an ashamed-of-our-history white American. I saw grace in defeat and a strong and powerful woman take the reigns in the important job of Secretary of State.

    I see you’re getting some misinformation and have formed some strong ideological attitudes as a result. I see you’re tuned in to the angry Left. I hope you will come to see things differently. Progressives causes need your energy.

  47. Margaret C. Smith says:

    I am not in WV (bless their hearts!). However, I do reside in the United States of Appalachia.
    As we have seen, there is diversity in liberal/progressive opinion and that’s a good thing. The “Dark Side” may have their purity tests, but, so far that has not caught on over here. It may, though, if some of the posters are serious in their contempt, as displayed during this debate, of different POV’s and alternate sources of information.
    We have been talking about politicians, not our mothers; so there has been no reason to get defensive, snarky, hostile or disrespectful.
    A couple of suggestions for some interesting alternative political viewpoints on the ‘net:
    The Black Agenda
    We Are Respectable Negroes.
    Also, Naked Capitalism does fine work. I’ve a soft spot in my heart for Truthout and Nation of Change, as well. And the NYCGA of Occupy is still around and posting.
    Thanks for the informational exchange. When civil, it was quite enjoyable.
    Adios

  48. dinamic says:

    I just have one thing to say, that was no lady.

  49. GoldenSun says:

    Couldn’t resist quoting the sentence -
    “The word Appalachia is seldom uttered in the same sentence with the word enlightenment. More likely, images of the film ‘Deliverance’, corncob chomping grannies, or bonafide gun-toting hillbillies come to mind.”

    Though true in some instances, Ms Smith (my guess from North Carolina perhaps) does NOT fit into this characterization, as can be observed from her thoughtful intellectual comments.

    Yes, Appalachia has been a source of enduring myths and distortions regarding the isolation, temperament, and behavior of its inhabitants, not unlike many of Ms. Smith’s views on Liberals.

  50. Carol says:

    A few land last words on WV Progressives:
    I’ve found many pockets of very progressively-minded and active voters. The ones around me, the older women in the state party organization, are cowered, as I mentioned earlier, by those who are their loud, crass, bullying neighbors…fearful of retribution in the dark of night, fearful of rocks through their windows where they display support for their “leftist” candidates, fearful of ostracism in civic groups…and yet, they are fierce in their beliefs. In the cities, there are LGBT groups who offer celebratory events, articulate progressives who write op-eds to the local papers (and they’re published!). In the Eastern Panhandle, voters confront and try to educate Senator Manchin (pitiful) and stand tall and strong in their communities.
    Doris, whom I offered to Margaret when I wrongfully assumed she meant MY part of Appalachia, is pragmatically persistent and has learned the art of persuasion, doled out with patience and stories from her past. I’m heartened to see photos of her numerous public political displays. The “natives” fighting against mountaintop removal are in the hundreds and some of the most “believable” and persuasive, always standing up to their neighbors who claim they need the jobs.
    So…I’m frustrated with the entrenched state party operatives yet comforted by the tremendous efforts of my co-progressives, which makes us not unlike many other states across America.

  51. GoldenSun says:

    Carol, I agree, with everything you’ve stated with such caring and irrefutable detail. I appreciate your comments and the information you share. My quote on “Appalachia” was definitely not meant for you.

    In truth, Appalachian states have been a cradle of US freedom, independence, and enlightenment, as well as a region of progressive social history, literature, and music and that is why we all could use a lesson in Appalachian history.
    Especially myself.

    May there be more like you – GS.

  52. Carol says:

    GS…My comment was more for clarification and enlightenment than out of offense, as you may think from the tone of your comment.
    I’m only slightly “educated” to much of the historical progressiveness you describe…but the “extreme independence” I refer to is, in IMHO merely a continuation of that history yet distorted by current rhetoric.
    I’ve found a new friend lately who has some powerful statements about independence and disdain for places she’s lived “away”…I’ll be pressing her about the topic…thanks.