Sections of the Affordable Care Act requiring health insurers to cover contraception services kicked in today and Republican wingnuttery moved into full throttle mode. Pennsylvania Rep. Mike Kelly:
I know in your mind you can think of times when America was attacked. One is December 7th, that’s Pearl Harbor day. The other is September 11th, and that’s the day of the terrorist attack,” Kelly said at a press conference on Capitol Hill. “I want you to remember August the 1st, 2012, the attack on our religious freedom. That is a day that will live in infamy, along with those other dates.
How messed up is that? Kelly’s statement is screwy on so many levels, it’s hard to know where to begin the criticism. Providing insurance coverage for contraception for women is now being compared to Pearl Harbor and 9/11? Unbelievably stupid. In truth, the Republican Party is more of a threat to America than any evil terrorists could ever conceive doing. America’s real enemies are these inane, ignorant, backward-looking, STUPID piles of scum that parade about preaching their brand of morality.
The joke here is that kooks like Kelly decry attacks on religious freedom when in fact it is his party that regularly violates such freedoms by trying to force their religious beliefs on an entire population. Clearly, if one is opposed to the use of contraception, then don’t bloody use them. End of story.
How much more lunacy on the part of Republicans is it going to take before everyone realizes that the GOP is now officially the party of the insane?
UPDATE:
One of our readers, E.A. Blair, sent in the following screen capture of a Wikipedia entry. It has since been cleaned up but I think the prankster made his point.
If you have trouble reading the print, the edited entry reads: “He is a member of the Republican Party, and a total douchebag.”
___
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Granted, the comparison to 9/11 is ridiculous. What is also ridiculous is liberals refusal to acknowledge that when government is allowed to mandate what can and cannot be included in insurance policies, we all lose some of our freedom. This is the point Kelley awkwardly attempted to make.
Tell me Marcus D – just what is it you have lost in your insurance policy? What coverage was it you had that was taken away?
Don’t expect a detailed response from Marcus D. When in doubt, just holler, “My Freedoms are being taken away!” Isn’t that right Marcus XD
@ Marcus D., So then I guess we all lost freedom when states mandadted what MUST be included in Auto Insurance. Marcus, this issue has ZERO to do with freedom and everything to do with prevention of unwanted pregnancies and helping women with severe menstrual pains.
Nothing in my coverage was taken away. That is not the point. Forcing insurers to cover contraception adds to the premiums I and others pay for my insurance. I have nothing against women and contraception but I do have a problem having to subsidize a product which women can easily and cheaply purchase each month.
The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
Marcus is right. Every time government mandates what we must do, it restricts our freedoms and power to choose. I use contraception and have no need to have it covered by my health insurance.
Soo…making an employer, who is a Jehovah Witness, provide blood transfusions – isn’t that making him go against his religious beliefs? What about if your employer was a Christian Scientist? It would go against his religious beliefs for you to get any regular medical care.
You say that women can easily purchase birth control on their own – yet nowhere have I heard the right backing off on covering Viagra, which might be, after all, God’s way of telling a man that that part is over now. Neither of you have responded to the comparison about mandated auto insurance. Didn’t that take away your freedom? Best to just ignore that, eh?
Viagra is not covered by my insurer and I doubt if it’s covered by most.
Fill in the blank:
Cancer
Antibiotics
Heart disease
Glaucoma
Congential birth defects
Prescription medications (including Viagra)
Orthopedic surgery
Epilepsy
Joint replacement
Hypertension
You can plug any condition that requires medical treatment into that blank space, depending on your prejudices. I might object to my premiums going to pay to treat lung disease in people who were stupid enough to suck on cigarettes all their lives, but I know that if they can be excluded so can I for something I need treatment for. I’d suggest to Marcus that he go back and find that piece I posted on being denied diagnosis by an HMO, but I know it wouldn’t have any effect.
I’m only going on the basis of what you yourself stated, “what can and cannot be included in insurance policies.”
So you okay with your premium dollars covering Viagra? How about breast exams? How about prostrate exams?
Do you have concept of insurance risk? Your auto insurance offers you coverage for uninsured and UNDER insured motorists. Based on your analogy you shouldn’t have to purchase that coverage, but I’m betting you do.
Risk – involves all risk — and just as a FYI — delivering a baby ($7-10K – uncomplicated birth), along with pre-natal and post natal care — costs a whole lot more that birth control ($108 to $1K a year depending on the brand). If you want to see your premiums skyrocket, eliminate birth control coverage.
Here’s a great little article that provides you some “by the numbers” — you might want to read this before complaining about the your premium costs — it will cost many more of our tax dollars in the end without birth control.
And if you happen to be the unlucky guy who didn’t want a child – well, too bad for you. The court will still make you pay child support.
I wonder – it goes against a Witnesses’ principles to receive a blood transfusion, but, as far as I know, there would be nothing to prevent a witness doctor from performing a transfusion on a non-Witness patient. Similarly, would a Christian Scientist be barred from becoming a doctor and giving (but not accepting) medical treatment? I’ll have to ask a Jewish acquaintance if it’s forbidden for a Jewish short order cook who personally keeps kosher to fry up an order of ham and eggs or fix a cheeseburger.
Marcus.
Be happy your only concern is a premium hike due to essential healthcare for women (I really don’t believe you would be whining if the medication in question was for men). If I had my way, we would now be instituting universal healthcare…and instead of a minor premium hike, you might be looking at a tax hike.
I guess you set the standard for the other 305,000,000 Americans: If Marcus D. doesn’t have it, nobody does. If Marcus D. doesn’t want it, nobody can have it.
Comparing contraception to cancer or heart disease makes no sense. No one asks to be afflicted with cancer. It happens and when it does, the cost of care can be crippling. The pill, on the other hand, is a matter of choice and the cost is minimal. My wife pays under $30 a month for her prescription. There is no good reason that we should all be burdened with the cost of my wife’s birth control.
Oh, Marcus — why do you think there is coverage for contraceptives? Because there was coverage for Viagra! When first introduced, about half of the insurance companies covered the cost of Viagra. (Bob Dole was in the trial program and became their spokesman — I know, you’re too young to remember) causing an outrage that they would cover men to get an erection, but not women to keep from getting pregnant.
I agree that equating women’s reproductive rights to acts of aggression is lunacy, but I’d beg you not to lean to the other end of bigotry through the expression “hillbilly morality.” People of the USA are diverse everywhere, and to label any population just by their geography is as biased as labeling all women who use contraception “sluts.” My “hillbilly” family has included radical abolitionists, reformers, people who didn’t attend college but read the classics in their original languages, physicians and farmers, teachers and stay-at-home moms, murderers and judges, preachers and atheists, miners and bankers, diplomats and land barons. Their views have been just as varied as any other population’s. A surprising lot of the women have known all the fine arts of contraception handed down by their ancestors, and they’ve fought as hard as anyone else for women’s rights, including those for reproductive choice. The illusion of half-wit, inbred, puritans lurking in America’s mountainous areas doesn’t belong in this discussion.
If republicans are complaining about a box of contraceptives, they have their priorities in the wrong place,,, How about medicare fraud being practiced every day by crooked doctors… Wheres the outrage about that?
Marcus D & redState — do us all a favor and walk outside your door and into the rest of the world to take a look around.
There are millions of women out there making minimum wage who cannot afford $30 a month for birth control. Many already have children and don’t want and cannot afford another child.
You know the great thing about this country? It’s made of all kinds of different people with different needs, different perspectives and make different contributions to our society — and, thankfully, not all of them are just like you or me. Diversity – learn to love it.
@Janis: Point taken. I was using the word ‘hillbilly’ in its loosest sense and not as a way of differentiating between people of different geographical locations. But it was thoughtless of me regardless of intent. Thank you for pointing it out. I’ve changed the wording in the post.
Not all women who take oral conraceptives do so for contraceptive purposes. If you exempt one group, you can start making exemptions for others.
Well, my wife was on contraception since she was a teenager because she experienced near-crippling symptoms of menstruation. She wasn’t put on it at that young age to prevent pregnancy.
She went off the pill so we could have a child but it turns out she had a severe case of endometriosis – which was slowed dramatically from taking contraceptives. She experienced two years of strange symptoms ranging from chronic diarrhea to panic attacks until it was diagnosed and treated surgically.
Now we have a beautiful 18 month old son and my wife is back on contraception. Why? In the year since our son’s birth her endometriosis came back with a vengeance. So we had to have another surgery to clean it up.
So Marcus, taking contraceptives has significantly reduced my wife’s health care costs. So sorry that real-world facts don’t play well in GOP Fantasyland.
It’s hard to credit that insurance companies raise their rates every time a new illness is covered. Seems to me that the more coverage they offer, the more customers they will have. Also, Mr. D is under the impression that health insurance companies require a reason to raise their rates. Before ACA, they could do as they liked without any one to stop them. Not only that, but they could do it in tandem with other health insurance companies so that there was none of that beloved capitalist value; competition. Does Mr. D feel that the mandate to extend the age for coverage of young adults on the parents policy or the mandate to actually cover sick people is detrimental to his coverage and rates. If he believes this, then isn’t he glad that insurance companies are now obliged to actually spend the money that their customers pay them for specific services on said services? The point that Mr. F. made about auto insurance regulation is a valid one. In this country (at this time, anyway) it is illegal for a corporation (and anyone else) to defraud the customer. Perhaps, Mr. D., you would be happier if your health insurance rates were lowered for services that will denied just because the corporation could, as has been the case previously to ACA . Just think how low your rates would be in such an unregulated industry that could rip you off with impunity. Mr. D., is there a special school that teaches how to use human brain-power to ignore or rationalize away any fact that challenges foolish and irresponsible beliefs?
You’re all missing the point. Even if we agree that free contraception has its virtues, we still have the problem of surrendering more of our freedoms to government. Where do we draw the line? If we allow them to mandate what insurers can and cannot cover, the next step is them telling us what to eat and how to dress and what cars to drive. Do you not see the dangers? We’re facing creeping socialism and you’re all to blind to see it. Wake up already!
Marcus, if you want to worry about government taking away your freedoms, what are you doing or saying about all the states who have enacted voter suppression laws?
There is nothing in the ACA that takes away coverage from anyone — it provides more coverage and, therefore, more freedom of choice, and that’s a good thing.
And, yes, there is a mandate that requires you to buy insurance (which will only effect about 2% of the population) but there are religions and other exemptions relieving people of the mandate. And that mandate is only fair to the rest of us who have been footing the bill for those who don’t have insurance. This has been going on since Reagan mandated that hospitals take care of patients who come to their door be they insured or not or here legally or not.
You have five rights in the Constitution: speech, religion, press, assembly and petition
The ACA takes away none of these.
Marcus D…..you are using the “slippery slope” argument and that comes from just one place…..fear based thinking. I have seen and heard that argument used not just for politics but for all kinds of things….kike, if we let one black in our establishment, then we might have to let more in and look where that might lead, or if we let one gay couple marry then more might do this and then….where does that lead? and there is always the thing about, if we let one billionaire lower his taxes….then more will want that….and where does that lead???
Government is not Them! Government is US!! We are the government!! We all choose to allow birth control because we care about those who cannot afford it, WE choose to allow all people of all colors to enter establishments because WE all benefit from a greater participation by all citizens, WE all can decide to allow gays to marry, serve in the military because their full participation in our society will reap benefits for us all! I have not seen the military become totally ineffective because of Don’t ask, Don’t tell”!! WE decide that ii is in our best interests as a country to be inclusive, broad based and broadminded in our thinking and in our participation in this country because when WE ALL participate and when WE ALL do things to help each other get along in life…our country benefits!! A rising tide lifts all boats! Not just those who think they would like to see just their own boat rise.
This concept that WE should only think about I, I, I, I…all the time makes our country weaker because a chain is only as strong as it’s weakest link! Our country is only as strong as it’s weakest members! WE need to help ALL of us get along because …..in the end….WE will be better for having helped one another….Jesus said it best! Do unto others as you would have them do unto you! Think of others, Marcus, not just yourself! It is a spiritual practice that would benefit this nation greatly!
A question for liberals. Are there any areas of our lives which you feel government has no right to mandate or dictate our behavior? The more I hear liberals speak, the more convinced I am that they would be content with government controlling every part of our lives. You really do want a nanny state, don’t you?
You mistake conservatives asking for more personal responsibility by citizens as a sign that we are heartless or less compassionate than liberals. We are not. I care deeply about the poor but I also know that the only real and lasting way to help them is to ask them to help themselves. I give generously to charity but I don’t want to be told I have to. Distribution of wealth should be voluntary, not mandatory.
RedState girl….do you know how much of “distribution of wealth” has not been voluntary and has been done by the 1% against the rest of us??? Do you know how much they love hearing you talk about “self-responsibility” because it lets them out of having to restore to all of us what they have taken by force?? You have no idea how much the 1% loves your philosophy! Also, do you realize how hard it is to “have the poor help themselves” when the 1% has legislated things so that YOU are going to become that Poor Person?? and so that YOU will not be able to get out of it by “helping yourself”? Look at home foreclosures…..many have happened to people who thought that they were “helping themselves” and doing ok. I pity you when the day comes that you lose your job, get an illness, have surgery and medical bills you can’t pay and then have your home foreclosed and then be told that you have to “help yourself”!! No matter that your job was lost due to outsourcing legislated by the 1% or that your illness could have been prevented but your HMO wouldn’t let legislation pass that would have allowed you to get preventive care, or your surgery is “accidentally” billed incorrectly and you spend months just trying to negotiate and talk with them while trying to recover from your surgery and then have your mortgage company refuse to restructure your mortgage so you can stay in your home. Then tell me that everyone just has to “help themselves”!!! That phrase “let the poor help themselves” is the most shortsighted lie that has ever been made up by those people who are just overwhelmed like you and can’t seem to see that you still have responsibility for more than yourself even when you don’t want to! Think about it! Wouldn’t you like a helping hand if you were in that dire place I just presented? I’ll bet you would! Think about it!
redState — Go to Amazon.com and buy this book: Wealth and Democracy: A Political History of the American Rich
The author is Kevin Phillips, former political strategist to Richard Nixon.
It will explain all you need to know about the redistribution of wealth in this country — and it has not been down to the middle class and the poor.
Go pull up the charts to see what the wealth distribution is. About 1700 families OWN the vast majority of wealth in this country. They didn’t used to. The middle class used to own an equal portion. They don’t anymore. So tell us, who do you think has been getting the redistribution?
Many of them get so many exemptions (including corporations like GE and Exxon) that they don’t even pay taxes.
And when they don’t pay taxes, we in the middle class have to come up with the dollars to make up that difference or the debt goes up.
As for charities — go do an Internet search to see which charity is out there that doesn’t need something – anything in these hard times. Call the food bank and see if they are awash in enough food to cover their needs.
Did you know that the Catholic church receives tax dollars to help with their charitable contributions?
If charities depended solely on those who donated, there would a whole lot fewer charities.
Do you know who gets food stamps? Most go to the elderly, children and the disabled, and single parents. There is no longer a “welfare program” – it’s now (and has been since 1997 TANF – Temporary Assistance for Needy Families. Look it up.
Should we take away the school lunch programs so children won’t be able to eat lunch at school?
The purpose of these programs is not to keep people dependent, but to help them through hard times (as we are having now) and get them into jobs where they can be self-sufficient, or need fewer resources.
How it is that you don’t have the curiosity to look up these issues to see what government’s role in them are?
You come to this site and make broad pronouncements about liberals, spouting talking points about which you have no facts to back up your positions and make comments about government programs for which you lack basic understanding about what they are and what they do.
My guess is you’ve never read the ACA or even a summary of what it does.
And the right calls liberals lazy!
Come back after you have at least read Phillips. Until then, I’m not wasting further time and effort to educate you.
Take some “personal responsibility” and go educate yourself.
I want the government to be able to tell insurance companies that they cannot deny me medical treatment solely on the basis of cost. I posted an extensive description of my experience; I do not know the URL to link to that page, but I’m sure Mario can provide it.
@ redstategirl,,, Every society, every country, every city, every village throughout the world has sick or elderly or poor people,,, There has always been these kind of people even before biblical times, they didn’t just crop up in America under Obamas watch,,, No ones asking for a nanny state,,,, but you cant make the needy suffer because people abuse the system,,, You have to stop the corruption at the top and work your way down to the fraud at the bottom,,, Conservatives would rather throw needy and fraud alike into the streets and then bury them in a mass grave when they all die… Maybe not you in particular, but I have seen cons in blogs saying that’s the only way to fix the welfare problem,,, Insane!
That may be the most ridiculous statement ever!
Marcus D:
“Nothing in my coverage was taken away. That is not the point. Forcing insurers to cover contraception adds to the premiums I and others pay for my insurance.”
An old adage holds true in this argument — “An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure”.
E.A.’s devastating experience with the health care system, can be read here.
Also, E.A. sent in a screen capture of a Wikipedia entry which lends itself well to this post. See UPDATE in main post above.
Bullshit, Nivi. You all are. You want to be taken care of by government, you just won’t admit it openly.
I heard a northern European politician describing those who want to immigrate from his socialist society to America, as “adventurous”. Living an unrestricted life is considered adventurous to people who are happy with the economic restrictions necessary in a socialist society.
I find it interesting the way liberals think that mandating anything, frees anyone.
Bullshit back at ya, Tommy.
Does anything register with you, Tommy? When Diana, E.A., Melody and other liberals on this site and elsewhere write about the hardships of the poor, does that mean anything to you? You callously dismiss the plight of those who are maybe not living the life you are. These people aren’t background characters in an Ayn Rand novel. They’re for real, dude, and they don’t have the luxury to sit around waiting for people like you to debate some Utopian notion of freedom. They’re just trying to stay alive.
@E.A. I just finished reading your story about your experience with the healthcare system. How tragic and sad. I’m glad you came out of it in one piece. Your story should be recounted to every living soul who thinks we have the greatest healthcare system in the world. I shudder to think how many more stories like yours there are out there.
DanielRT – You don’t know my story. I have family I take care of with the proceeds of my hard work. I understand hardship because I’ve lived through it personally.
My problem with the left, is that they’ve usurped the word “compassion”, and use it as a club to beat down anyone who would say, “I will take care of myself”. You call us selfish, not because we won’t give when asked, but because we won’t give when you demand.
I’ve said this before. I define virtue by how little I take, not by how much I give. Can you say the same?
Consider the situations of three single working mothers. One lives in Denmark, one lives in Germany and the third lives in the US.
The Danish mother works for an employer who operates a state-superviced day care facility at the worksite. This requires no thought whatsoever. She can visit her child on breaks, share lunch and knows that things are okay in the event she has to work late.
The German mother has to find offsite daycare for her child. Fortunately, since the day care is subsidized and partially supervised by the state, she knows that the fees and standards of care are uniform and she can choose one that is close to home or close to her workplace.
The US mother has a seemingly unlimited choice of daycare options. There are dozens of private daycare facilities in her town. There’s one two blocks away from home, but the playlot is dirty and the playground equipment isn’t in very good shape. There’s one close to work, but the fees are far more than she can afford. There’s another one on the way to work, but there were rumors that one of their workers was fired for not properly caring for her charges. There’s one that is clean, affordable and appears well-run, but it adds forty-five minutes to her commute each way. There are several daycares run by people working out of their homes, but she doesn’t know if she can trust how well they are run. In the end, she chooses one that is expensive, but she can make the payments if she cuts back on the food budget (oh, well, she could always afford to lose a few pounds). Then, her car needs repairs, and in order to keep the kid in daycare, she has to take on a part-time weekend job. That’s two more days of daycare, and by the time she gets the kid home, she only has an hour or two to spend with her child before bedtime.
Meanwhile, the Danish mother and the German mother have lots of time to spend with their kids, and they sleep a lot better at night not having to wonder what’s going to happen when the fees go up or the car breaks down again.
Sometimes the option of seemingly unlimited choices is an illusion. Who is more free – the Danish and German mothers or the US mother? Which of the three has had their lives and options restricted? The European women in this example have jobs that serve their lives; the American woman has a life that serves her job (which, unknown to her, will be outsourced to China next year when Bain Capital takes over).
E.A. – I lived in Denmark for a year. The majority of the population wants to live with government protections, paid with the loss of opportunity. Those who want opportunity, move elsewhere.
Tommy, you tout that word “opportunity” like it is some kind of magic panacea for all ills! Opportunity is a very sharp two-edged sword that can give rewards or can suck the life out of you and all that you had up to that point. And if your “opportunity” involves being a very small business owner and some giant corporation wants you “off the block” then your days are numbered no matter how much you have loved having the “opportunity” to own a business.
Another “opportunity” is the chance to go to college….if you can afford the student loans and the “interest” on it! Another “opportunity” is the chance to raise a family….if your pregnancy has no complications, if the child has no illnesses and injuries, if your partner is kind, decent, loving, supportive, helps bring in income and your housing has no problems like floods, tornadoes, earthquakes, ice storms, etc!
When hardship hits…those who are burning the candle at both ends trying to “take advantage of their ‘opportunity’” find that doing it alone and “pulling themselves up by the bootstraps” has gotten harder when they lost their feet! We all need each other and when those hard times come, Tommy, it isn’t a matter of whether you feel like you are being “asked” or “demanded” to give….it is a matter of knowing that sometimes it is the situation that “demands” that you give and not the people in the situation!
And sometimes, Tommy, when enough of those situations hit over time, we learn that preventives and having plans and funds in place to help our neighbors ahead of time instead of waiting until the storm is there is a better idea and so we gather together to create things like FEMA and The Red Cross and our National Guard is already trained and prepared to assist so that we don’t waste time trying to close the barn door after the horse is gone!
Our government is US, Tommy! WE are the government! WE choose to allow our taxes to be used to help all of us collectively. I prefer that to telling my neighbors to “help themselves” when hard times hit…..and Tommy, this is hard times right now! So let’s all help instead of complaining about being “demanded” to help!
Nice positive outlook on life there, Melody. Is that a blanket viewpoint of all liberals?
WE are NOT the government. The government is our servant. The collectivist’s vision makes it our master.
We don’t exist to serve each other. You believe we do, and that’s the conflict between us. I actually have the same conflict with social conservatives. They believe that we exist to serve each other through God, you believe we should do it through Government. You just worship different “G” words.
Notice that Tommy can only talk about himself, he is so brainwashed that he skipped over my whole comment about fixing the system from the top on down, from keeping money out of politics, to stopping welfare fraud,,, No just like your typical brainwashed fox zombie,,, he can only look at life through the eyes of a sociopath,,, It ain’t all about you Tommy, I know you would like it to be, but its not.
Tommy and the Gang assume that we are on the dole because we care about other humans. I also have worked hard, since the age of 16, put myself through school and never had to take public assistance. Which does not mean I am blind to others and their situations.
They have done studies on the “conservative” brain (in quotation marks because it really is not conservative when you want to strip the only earth we have, for profit – or even more ridiculous, other’s profits), and found that they are much more self-centered.
I have a friend that is very right-wing and spouts off much like the conservatives here. She lost her job, through no fault of her own, and found the experience very humbling, especially when her liberal friends helped out so much (oddly, her conservative friends turned their backs). However, once she finally got another job and dug out of the hole (with help from those damn libruls), she reverted back to her old ways of blaming the victims of the recession. It is like she had total memory loss.
Cheryl, I know how that is. When I was going through some difficult times around ten years ago, all my friends of conservative bent refused to even lend a sympathetic ear – they said that if my life wasn’t going well it must be my fault. It was only through reconnecting with an old college friend by chance – someone I hadn’t seen in almost twenty-five years – that I had someone to lend me the moral support I so badly needed.
Earlier this year, I got a call from one of those conservative friends, after ten years of silence. He called to tell me that another mutual friend, someone I’d known since I was six, had terminal pancreatic cancer and had been diagnosed over a year ago. The guy was in hospice and I wasn’t told how to get in touch to at least ay goodbye. Two days later, I read the obituary. The whole thing made me wonder why I got that call in the first place. I just put it down to another act of compassionate conservatism.
I’ve always thought that if anyone wished to see what a government without social safety networks looks like, check out India. The people are creative, hardworking and intelligent, but guess what? They are locked into eternal and horrific poverty due to class war backed by the dominant religion and a 1% owned government of by and for the 1%. There is more to their socio-economic history, of course, especially when you take into consideration their colonization by the British Empire and the East India Company (a perfect example of government and corporate collusion) and their current controllers, the U.S.A., Great Britain (still!) and the IMF. And by the way, India’s socio-economic inequality ratio (never the best) has doubled since the 1990′s (remind you of anything, perhaps the U.S.?).
What gets me is that over the last 20 years or so, in the U.S., the obscenely wealthy (1%) and their puppet media, presidents and politicians have convinced many of us (re: conservatives) that we do not deserve clean air and water, decent schools for all of our kids, decent housing and transportation, a living wage and survivable employment, affordable health care, protection from white collar thievery, privacy, adherence of local, state and federal government to the Bill of Rights, libraries, post offices, fire departments, peaceful co-existence with the rest of the planet, freedom from predation by powerful, rapacious and greedy people, etc…. India has none of these amenities and very low taxes. Is that what you want? Does living an average life in India accompanied and surrounded by dire and eternal poverty really appeal to you that much?
Great comparison Margaret! But you’re wasting your time with Tommy – I honestly don’t know why he bothers even coming here. Facts mean nothing to him. He’s right and everyone else is wrong. I don’t waste my time responding to anything (other than short bursts, as above) he has to say anymore. He probably won’t admit it, but he’s a Randian, believing in Objectivism. With regard to number one below – keep in mind only the facts HE chooses. You see, in today’s world you get to chose the facts you want, those based in reality that don’t suit your purpose are not considered.
Thanks Diana. You saved me a lot of typing. I agree with all of those points. And frankly, I’m glad you’re not responding to me anymore. I find your bloviated comments tiresome reading.
I’m still a little blown away by Melody’s comment. Failure, and the pain of doing so, is a necessary ingredient of evolution. It’s how nature determines what works and what doesn’t. The same is true with humans. We try out new ideas, and sometimes they work. Much of the time they don’t. Without the opportunity to fail, we can’t succeed.
Tommy, I can understand how you can’t get through Diana’s comments. They’re filled with nasty little things you might not be accustomed to. I believe people call them facts.
Daniel – What have I said that isn’t true?
Daniel, don’t bother – you’ll be wasting your time.
@Tommy: We could ask you the same question about any of the comments in this post written by anyone other than redstate and Marcus. What have they stated that you find to be untrue?
Margaret’s point about the only thing preventing the growing economic divide between rich and poor creating a class structure resembling India’s socio-economic nightmare is the existing social safety net. True or not?
E.A. Blair’s story of how his life was turned upside down because of an illness he had no part in choosing and the health insurers who refused to pay for the tests which would have prevented the unfortunate death of an innocent victim. You think this is an isolated case?
How about Melody’s points about access to higher education, complications in pregnancy, spousal abuse, unexpected illness, economic ruin due to natural disasters and other real life issues? Is lecturing them about personal responsibility and government intrusion in their lives going to help them much? What do you think?
Nivi’s comments about the poor, elderly and sick…is that bullshit too? What’s your answer for them? To suck it up and stop bitching ’cause your interpretation of personal freedom is more important than a stinking meal or a medical procedure that could save their lives?
Read Deep’s story about contraceptives significantly reducing his wife’s health care costs.
Diana’s point about women on minimum wage not being able to afford $30/month for contraceptives.
Read it all and tell me what you think. Tell me how anything you propose helps these people in a real way. Fifty million people have no health insurance and the political party you endorse intends on keeping it that way. How does that make you feel, Tommy? Fifty million people with little or no access to basic health care. And you’re going to cast a vote for the bastards that don’t give a damn about these people?
The party you endorse will cut taxes on the rich while cutting back on Medicare and other government programs which for millions of Americans are literally the difference between life and death. This is okay with you?
You are probably paying less taxes now than you have in the last 20 years and you still bitch about Obama increasing taxes on the highest 2% a measly 3 percent?
If you agree that most of the issues I’ve just written about are real, then can you understand why liberals get frustrated with people like you?
Mario – Tommy doesn’t care. What’s important to him is him and his family. No one else matters. If they have problems, it’s because they deserved them for not be smart enough or they’re too lazy — life getting in the way of people’s dreams and hard work to achieve them – well, too bad for you – you must not be doing something right or tough luck wouldn’t have befallen you.
You see, in that way, Tommy can turn off his conscience and his heart and just ignore anyone he doesn’t know or care about. He can toss a few coins in the charity box and walk away feeling he’s done all he needs to do.
The only government he wants is one that will protect him from the rabble who are out to steal from him. That’s the only society he wants, one where he is protected. The rest of us are on our own.
I am enjoying all of these informational posts and viewpoints — you all write so well!! I’m especially grateful to live in a country where we are free to express our opinions and disagree in a respectful manner without dire reprisals. I doubt that anyone here will ever change the mindset of someone with an opposing view, but how liberating it is to be able to express ourselves in this forum. I love this blog, Mario — I am a devoted fan. :)
If I’m protected, so is everyone else. Are you too stupid to see that Diana?
Liberals are frustrated with people like me because I won’t conform to their definition of compassion. I’ve spent over three years studying liberals; not listening to Fox, but coming up with my own opinions. I’ve been mostly cordial up until now, but this is what I really think.
Compassion for others, my ass. What about your compassion for people who don’t agree with you? I don’t want you to control my life. Most American’s don’t want you to either.
You all think that you’re doing the right thing by forcing people to give more. I doubt if any of you introspect about the impact that your good intentions have on the people that don’t want your help. You talk about caring for the needy, while vilifying the non-needy, people who don’t feel the need to be controlled or cared for.
You’re fixed in your opinions. Tolerance is something that you demand, without showing to others.
You’re bullies. You use belittling comments to try to get me to shut up and accept my fate of being a cog in the wheel that you control. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!
I’ve had many highlights in my life. The next one I’m looking forward to is the morning of November 7, 2012. Obama will have lost in a landslide. It will not even be close. The House majority will strengthen, and Republicans will take over the Senate. The state and local elections will also turn sharply right.
Liberalism has been refuted. You just don’t know it yet.
Okay, Tommy.
And if your wish of a Romney landslide materializes (not a chance in hell, btw), one of the consequences, among many, is that your political party of choice will do their best to make sure that 50,000,000 Americans will remain without access to basic health care. That is not a supposition. It’s a fact…and you’ve just convinced me that you don’t really care.
Based on the Tax Policy’s report – unless Tommy makes over $200K a year, his taxes are going to be going up to pay for the top 2% getting a decrease.
Since we all know that Tommy’s bottom line is all that matters….Cheers!
On the bright side, it’s encouraging knowing that people like Tommy are a dying breed. The Republican party is coming apart at the seams and at some point in the near future it’ll fracture into a moderate wing and a wingnut wing of baggers and haters. It can’t happen too soon.
All Obama needs is one of these.
The Quinnipiac polls, commissioned with CBS and the New York Times, show Obama leading Romney 51 to 45 percent in Florida; 50 to 44 percent in Ohio, and 53 to 42 percent in Pennsylvania.
Yeah, Daniel, Gaffney’s going after Norquist. Others are going after Gaffney. Romney’s keeping his mouth shut, because it doesn’t matter which side he comes down on, he’s going to lose votes. All the press needs to do is keep hammering him about Gaffney/Bachmann/Norquist (who’s pledge he signed) and his tax returns. A non-answer on the taxes and he will continue dropping in the polls.
He’s in a box along with the other rocks.
” I’ve spent over three years studying liberals; not listening to Fox…”
So where do you get your misinformation from?
The problem with people like Tommy ,,, Is he thinks the Republican Elite are for the working people,,,, He’s probably caught wind of the multimillion dollar think tanks the right wing have set up to devise ways to trick the suckers and the over patriotic chickenhawks into thinking one way only – but he doesn’t care because he’s never been invited to the boardroom…. Once you’re brain washed by these sources there is no effective way to cleanse your mind from the hate and the lies, it consumes you, you go to bed filled with hate towards others who do not think like you… It’s ashame that programs like Fox and Rush Limbaugh turn what were once decent people into functioning zombies, who blindy follow without question. I’m a Democrat and one thing I still have is my wits to question things. As long as we have radical Republicans this country will always be rigged for the rich who pull the strings and laugh all the way to the bank,,, Up untill now the Democrats have went along and havent pushed back, the whole “If your not with us, you’re against us speech Bush JR gave isn’t going to work anymore,” We are against your out dated idioligies that change nothing,,, we are against your hate and underhanded tactics, this is America where people of all races and religions have come together to solve problems! We out number you and we will become the greatest nation again without your help.
@Anonymous: Well, we are going to have to do it without the likes of redstategirl, Marcus, and Tommy – they are carrying the torch for the 1% who are laughing at them. I bet you one KrispyKreme donut (you have to send it to me in Texas) that they make less than the amount needed to actually get a cut in Mitten’s tax proposal. No, it will cost them.
@Cheryl: It always amazes me to realize that there are people who think that they’re getting manna from heaven when they’re really getting pissed on (the real meaning of “trickle-down”).
@Mario: Wikipedia is pretty good at policing their content. I once tried to prank them – I was using a public library computer, and inserted a calendar entry that went something like, “3 November 2008: George W. Bush declares martial law in the US, suspends elections and declares himself President For Life.” By the time I got home from the library (about half an hour later) it was gone. I was not, however, the one responsible for the comment on the Mike Kelly page. I just happened to catch it at the right time. Most of my contributions to Wikipedia are grammar corrections (although I did make an interesting comment with regard to a Pink Floyd performance).
I don’t understand what the fuss is all about because health insurance does cover birth control as it should as it did before Obamacare, and test and treatments for womens diseases, and almost every disease and health condition you can think of, if you’re injured you’re covered if a man has a problem getting an erection and needs the pills most insurances do cover it including medicare and medicaid.
The new healthcare law doesn’t take one thing away from any of us it adds to our coverage, this thing with trying to throw religion into the fray is ignorant but why do they keep falling for it, hardly anyone ask any church for their help or opinions on any issues we have today or yesterday so why so much now. is it because the republicans are so desparate that they are grabbing at anything they can to try and hold on to their seats. They keeping saying alot of unnecessary stuff but why do people keep listening to them, giving them money and backing them for what this junk their doing is not what america wants nor is it what america was founded on. They keep useing the words your freedoms are being taken away by Obama no their not only the republicans are trying to take away our freedoms, we never hear Obama state anything about doing away with freedoms libertys guns privacys or any of that, but the republicans do. Everytime they try to over throw a good law or bill Obama makes that helps the american people right there they are proving to us that they don’t give a crap about us.
You can’t say you care about the american people when all you do is gripe and try to take away from us and call us lazy call us welfare cheats and free loaders amongst other things. If i need or want to take birth control no matter the method then yes my insurance should provide it what do these people think we are paying them for, there are people who go to the doctor regulary and many who have insurance that don’t go at all but yet they continue to pay for it, so does the insurance companys think that they should get a preminum but cut out most services if thats the case then we can all save our money and pay straight out for health services or start going to the clinics for free care or on a sliding scale fee and I know the insurance companies don’t want that to happen. because that would put them out of business. leave the services alone birth control pills and all other birth control methods should be left alone, those who want to use them should not be downed and fussed with leave them alone. who are these people the republicans to try and make health decisions for other people, after all their healthcare insurance is free on our dime and also for their familys so they shouldn’t even be talking about what we get or don’t get period. And for the guy complaining about what his money is paying for , for someone else are you ok with buying health insurance for the politicians who can afford health coverage themselves their all wealthy, so why do we offer them free health coverage and birth control free delivery and a couple months off after having a child, they can go to the best doctors and NIH and get the healthcare they need for free so why can’t we? why are we standing for the wealthy people of this country who live great and who get huge tax cuts and subsides fee welfare for the rich its called now, how do we accept them telling us what they can no longer afford for us when it’s our money their useing that their talking about. If they can afford to spend $50,00 or $100,000 to attend a campaign function then i don’t think they should be in the business of preaching anything to us about wasteful spending.
I wish that more American citizens when talking about the government would remember:
“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
They should note the “WE THE PEOPLE” part of the preamble and “GENERAL WELFARE”. They did not say this is the single most perfect document ever created for the rich by the rich. Read the whole document and you will find that the author, James Madison, intended it to be a living breathing document. That as a democratic republic we have certain rights as citizens and that we also have responsibilities to protect not just the down trodden but all of us.
Not one liberal says let the government decide everything for me, I want to be a Zombie. General Welfare does not mean give me everything I need to survive, but promote the lives and livelihood of ALL. Obviously WE the people are one nation, yes you can disagree politically and you have every right to speak against the government, but we are blessed to have those rights. We are blessed at least the Democratic party has not forgotten it is WE the People.
Does that mean I agree with everything the Democratic party proposes? NO. I find I agree with the liberals far more than I agree with conservatives.
EXCELLENT POST, GARY! WE THE PEOPLE, collectively, PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE which is the purpose of our union and government. Republicans are for promoting the welfare of the 1%, and leaving the 99% to fend for themselves. I agree, too, that the Democratic party is not perfect, but more often than not, aligns itself with the needs and causes of ALL of the people.
In a republicans mind,” We The People” – Sounds too Communist LOL