Republican’s Sick Interpretation of Rape

 

The requirements for becoming a U.S. senator are as follows…

  • must be 30 years or older
  • has been a citizen for the last 9 years
  • is a resident of the state they are running in

How about adding another requirement along the lines of:

  • heartless, misinformed, misogynistic idiots need not apply

Yesterday

Rep. Todd Akin, Missouri’s Republican Senate nominee, caused a public outcry Sunday when he told a local television station that “legitimate rape” rarely leads to pregnancy.

“First of all, from what I understand from doctors [pregnancy from rape] is really rare,” Akin, the Republican Senate nominee in Missouri, said. ”If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.”

Of course, Akin is both wrong and ignorant which seem to be the prerequisites for any Republican politician. It is worth nothing that Paul Ryan and Todd Akin co-sponsored the No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act which stipulated that only women subjected to “forcible rape” would be entitled to government paid abortion.

forcible rape?

How does one describe a man who favors imposing more restrictions on rape victims? And how does one describe a person who would cast a vote for a politician who holds such beliefs?

There are no limits to the right’s madness.

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85 thoughts on “Republican’s Sick Interpretation of Rape

  1. So there’s such a thing as ” legitimate rape.” What’s next, “compassionate rape?”

  2. via Facebook.

    my question is to republican woman..how can you continue to be a part of this party.what are you going to do to keep your daughters from getting pregnant when they ban birth control,the morning after pill and defund planned parenthood?..pl
    us you are ruining it for millions of other women who depend on these forms of medication for their well being…your women and you know how bad some women s problems are .so i suggest you take a second look at your party before you vote in a person like this man,he doesnt know the first thing about this,.leave it to a man whos never been through this to think they know whats best for us,sir if your not a dr,or a woman i suggest you keep your opinions and your ideas about this matter to yourself.you have no idea what its like to be a woman and you dont have the strength to be a woman,,,the whole gop party seems to be on this same page,and i dont know why gop women would endorse a man (romney and ryan)who wants to change everything we need to get by,change our health decisions change our medical decisions change what we can and cant have. and force us to do medical proceedures we dont really need done .why would you want any man changing what we need because they think they know whats best for us they arent doctors but they know whats best…thats bullshit…if we cant get support form them well then why vote for them. President Obama supports women.he gets my vote.

  3. via Facebook.

    First of all, abortion is NOT medication and secondly, 1% of ALL abortions in the US are done with “Rape” used as the reason. What will Republican women do to keep their daughters from getting pregnant? How about teaching abstinence, and responsibility? Since the majority of abortions are done purely for convenience reasons (See Guttmacher Institutes Stats) Seems to me if you are adult enough to have sex without using a condom, then your adult enough to raise the consequence of your actions. Or, are you advocating no responsibility at all? If you get pregnant, you don’t have to take responsibility for it…just abort the little bastard…right?

    In rape cases…see the rest of my comment below.

    Thirdly, women who have had abortions because of rape (and being pressured into abortion…that is their own words as a simple Google search will show) tell the emotional trauma from the abortion was far more devastating and life altering, and harder to overcome than the trauma from the rape. Those women who, against pressure to have an abortion, did give birth to the baby that resulted from the rape have reported feelings of healing and forgiveness through raising the baby or giving the baby up for adoption.

    My question is, how can any woman, no matter what her political affiliation, in good conscious, continue with a party that kills our sons and our daughter–to the tune of 52 million since Roe vs Wade–by keeping giant organizations like PP funded? PP has yet again been stung with another undercover investigation that showed the lack of concern for girls (who grow up to be women) that are being sex trafficked, and give tips to the “pimps” how to make his business seem legit and how to fool the paperwork so there is no investigation into underage abortions. How can you justify that?

    And please, inform us how an abortion contributes to the well being of any woman? How does slicing and dicing a baby in the womb beneficial? How does ripping a baby from it’s protected environment by a powerful vaccuum contribute to a womans health? Studies show women who have had abortions before their first full term pregnancy have a 140% increased risk for breast cancer (Pike et al) Daling et al published a large study which noted that women who had an abortion before their FFTP suffered a 40% increased risk. This risk increased to 150% if the adolescent had her abortion before the age of 18. In addition, Daling et al noted that if adolescents under the age of 18 aborted a baby that was more than 8 weeks old, they suffered an 800% increased risk of developing breast cancer.

    So again, how is this beneficial to the overall health and well being of women?

    AS A WOMAN, I abhor the death camp mentality of the Obama Administration when it comes to the unborn. I know what it is like to be a strong woman. I’ve raised three children by myself without the help of their dead beat father.I know what its like to be raped. I know what it is like to be poor and I know what it is like to rise above. I also know what its like to think I’m pregnant and wonder what I’m going to do with another mouth to feed. I’ve sat in that office contemplating alternatives, but as a woman with the belief that all life has a purpose, abortion was NEVER an answer. Taking the life of an innocent child because of hardships is ludicrous. The United States would have never survived if everyone had this mentality.

    The lies of “Ryan and Romney will end contraceptives” is just that. A line of BS meant to scare women and confuse the issue. Political malarky and I resent the fact that Liberal women use this line to manipulate other women, who are not as knowledgeable of the issue, into compliance.

    Obama is for women? Get real. Obama is for whomever contributes the most. Obama could care less if you “need” an abortion, or the pill. All Obama cares about is whose butt he needs to kiss… which PP is definitely in the running for the #1 arse kissing. And, before you think I’m pro Romney/Ryan, all they care about is who contributes the most to their campaign and whose rear ends they need to kiss once they make the big time.

  4. Cheryl, shut up. Your talking points are all debunked and your emotion-based language is pathetic. Use facts or get out!

  5. As for Todd Akin, if he would read the research and quote facts, he would see he is right. Rapes that result in pregnancies are (top #) 10 per state per year per 6 million pregnancies (in which 3million live births, 1.5 million are aborted and 500,000 miscarried). The actual number of abortions from rape are less than half of total rapes that result in pregnancy.

    1 New England Journal of Medicine, A.N. Groth, Sexual DyFORBESSunction [sic] During Rape, Oct. 6, 1977, p.764-6

    2 Mahkorn & Dolan, “Sexual Assault & Pregnancy.” In New Perspectives on Human Abortion, University Publisher of Amer., 1981, pp.182-199

    3 Mahkorn, “Pregnancy & Sexual Assault.” In Psychological Aspects of Abortion, University Publishers of Amer., 1979, pp. 53-72

  6. “What will Republican women do to keep their daughters from getting pregnant? How about teaching abstinence, and responsibility?”

    Yes. That works. See “Bristol Palin”.

  7. I seem to recall reading (I’m too lazy to research it) that 80% of abortions are thanks to failed contraceptive measures. In any event no woman should ever be forced to give birth against her will for any reason whatsoever.

  8. So many things to say – so hard to put it all in a coherent statement (especially when attitudes like Ryan’s and Akin’s provoke incoherent anger). I’ve seen this story headlined on Slate and HuffPo (or, as some call it, PuffHo), but it’s been a busy day and I haven’t had time to review all of the details in all the stories. However, it seems to me that this has come up before; I recall having read about that “body shut down” before. They’re wrong, of course, and it’s the kind of thing that makes you want magic to be real so both those idiots could wake up one day as women on the short end of their own policies.

    Charlie I agree – whenever a conservative uses the word “compassion” you know that someone, somewhere is getting screwed.

  9. Gee. Bristol Palin took responsibility, now didn’t she?

    “Cheryl, shut up. Your talking points are all debunked and your emotion-based language is pathetic. Use facts or get out!” First of all, my comments were posted here by your host so if you have a problem with me… talk to him.
    From Facebook
    “Mario Piperni Dot Com Marykay and Cheryl – your comments have been posted at mariopiperni.com/abortion/the-sick-republican-interpretation-of-rape.php/”

    Secondly,

    I do believe I posted facts: Rapes that result in pregnancies are (top #) 10 per state per year per 6 million pregnancies (in which 3million live births, 1.5 million are aborted and 500,000 miscarried). The actual number of abortions from rape are less than half of total rapes that result in pregnancy.

    1 New England Journal of Medicine, A.N. Groth, Sexual DyFORBESSunction [sic] During Rape, Oct. 6, 1977, p.764-6

    2 Mahkorn & Dolan, “Sexual Assault & Pregnancy.” In New Perspectives on Human Abortion, University Publisher of Amer., 1981, pp.182-199

    3 Mahkorn, “Pregnancy & Sexual Assault.” In Psychological Aspects of Abortion, University Publishers of Amer., 1979, pp. 53-72

  10. So let me decode Mr. Akins words for you…..when they ban all abortion, you will not be able to use rape as an excuse, because if you were REALLY, REALLY raped, you wouldn’t of got pregnant in the first place. Maybe rapists can use this line of thought in a court of law…”well you can clearly see your honor, this woman is pregnant, which is proof positive that the relations that I had with her was enjoyed by all”.
    Just think how much fun we will all have if they ban birth control pills, and you and your husband are not ready to have children………..just have him hide in the dark house, with a mask on his face, while holding one of your biggest kitchen knifes….now all he has to do is jump on you when you least expect it, and your body, thinking that you are being raped, will prevent pregnancy. Why didn’t anyone think of this before???

  11. Cheryl Mason Thompson – it’s pathetically transparent when you try to post legitimate- sounding references, without URLs, obviously assuming that most people won’t bother to follow up by searching to find/read them. You’re wrong and it’s pretty obvious that you have an agenda that’s unconcerned with actual facts or science. Here’s something legitimate to counter your anti-woman, anti-choice baloney. It’s from the United States National Institute of Health, by the American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8765248

  12. Cheryl might be able to read, but apparently not comprehend.

    How about teaching abstinence? That’s fine and dandy. But guess what? It doesn’t work.

  13. Craig,

    We all know teaching abstinence doesn’t always work, that is why I coupled it with responsibility. And, not just responsibility for the mother-to-be, but for the father too,.

    And, I comprehend just fine, thank you.

  14. Take the time and research those women who do, and do not, have abortions when faced with pregnancy after a rape. A good example is Rebbecca Keisling, a pro-life attorney from Michigan. Her birth mother was raped and she is a product of that rape. As she contends, the US Supreme Court states it is cruel and unusual punishment to expect the death penalty for the rapist, but the unborn child must die for the crime of his or her father. Isn’t that cruel and unusual punishment?

    (On her website, it shows the CDC puts pregnancies by rape at 4.5%) http://www.rebeccakiessling.com/PregnantByRape.html

  15. The missing word is CHOICE.

    So Cheryl have you been advocating for HIGHER TAXES to pay for these additional babies many of whom will become a financial burden requiring public assistance? Gotta remember that many of these women are in low income jobs, as are the fathers… How about covering the costs for mental health care for the raped mother and the kid who will likely suffer issues. Are YOU willing to pay for that?

  16. Oh give me a break Craig. Not every baby that is born is a drain on society. Steve Jobs, Albert Einstien, Peirce Brosnin,Halle Berry, Shaq, Singer Adele raised by a single mother with financial hardship. Justin Beibers mother was only 18 when she had him. Alicia Keys-raised by a single mother. JK Rollings comes from a long line of single mothers. The Olympics showed us Michael Phelps raised by a single mother. While I agree that some become dependent upon financial help/a.k.a. public assistance, there are many more who, like myself, pull themselves up and earn a living without the help of public assistance for too long.

    On the flip side Craig, How about the medical costs for those women who develop breast cancer as a result of having an abortion? Are you willing to cover her costs? How about those women who feel further traumatized due to having an abortion? What about them? Are you going to cover their mental health costs because they gave into the pressure to abort and now they feel worse. They state: the trauma they feel over the abortion is worse than the trauma of the rape. Are YOU willing to pay for that?

  17. Cheryl…….so you are basically saying that it is A-OK for any rapist to take a look around and pick out the mother of his child?

  18. No. Not every child born will be a drain on Society. Many, however, will.

    I’m a single father.

    And you didn’t answer the question Cheryl. Are you supporting increased taxes to support these kids? Or do they only matter until they are born?

  19. Also Craig;

    Who is giving the child a choice? In the US 52 Million have been aborted since Roe vs Wade. Roughly half, 26 million are women. No one gave them a CHOICE.

    52 Million Americans who may have been another Albert Einstien or Steve Jobs, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, or Andrew Jackson. Talk about a drain on society! Our society is drained because 52 million people are missing from America! 52 million Americans who would be supporting the baby boomers right about now. 52 million Americans who might have provided jobs and technology–like Steve Jobs did– for those of us allowed to live to enjoy. 52 million Americans who would have provided income tax revenue.

  20. Oh, come on, leave poor Cheryl alone. After all, she’s only following the bible, where it says,

    Deuteronomy 22:28-29:

    28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
    29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

    In other words – want a wife? Rape someone. Were there witnesses? If not, too bad:

    Deuteronomy 22:23-24):

    23 If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death:
    24 the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.”

    Yeah, the bible loves rape.

  21. Or the next:

    Jeffrey Dahmer
    Charles Manson
    Ted Bundy
    John Wayne Gacy
    Adolf Hitler
    David Berkowitz
    Jack the Ripper
    Henry Lee Lucas
    Charles Starkweather

    Strawman don’t play that. ;-)

    And again, you avoided the question Cheryl. Do you support increased taxes in order to support many of those 52 million that you quote? Or are they only important until outside of the womb?

  22. And I a single mother for 20+ years. Yet, I managed to raise 3 boys into men who have become productive members of society… without being a drain on society.

    You did not answer mine. Since, I disagree that every child born will be a drain on society, I do not believe increased taxes come into play. But, if you need for me to say something about funding… defund PP and you’ve got your money. I think it is a non issue because most single mothers and fathers work their butts off to support their children.

  23. Get a grip EA.

    So, Craig, it is your contention that because someone might become a serial killer abortion is ok? Should we list all those with mental disorders, or just those with a propensity to murder someone. If we take just the murderers, then we can clear out some of our prisons. But then, since EA brought the bible into this discussion, what about those who hate, since the bible also says hatred is murder…. should we abort their lives too?

    Sure, that’s ludicrous. I agree. But so is advocating abortion because someone MIGHT become a serial killer. But wait! Less people are in the world because of the serial killers, which makes more room for you to live and breath and eat and obtain money…. so, what’s your problem with mass murderers? They’ve done the same job PP has done… only theirs was considered illegal.

  24. So you contend each aborted fetus will be a Nobel Laureate?

    Again, do you support increased taxes to provide for the needy among those who weren’t aborted?

  25. Sydney;
    Where have you get that assumption? I said nothing of the kind. Rapists will rape whomever they choose because rape is about power and control. It has nothing to do with fathering a child.

  26. Since you obviously didn’t read my 4th post up, I have taken the time to repost my statement about taxes.

    “Since, I disagree that every child born will be a drain on society, I do not believe increased taxes come into play. But, if you need for me to say something about funding… defund PP and you’ve got your money.”
    And no, I do not contend every child that is born will be a Laureate, but at least each child would be given the chance to become one. With abortion, the choice has already been made.

  27. More like medical poof. I’ve already researched the subject. Are your sons productive members of society? Give proof of that.

  28. EA
    You’ve just come into this hunt and have already slammed my family? Is that how it works. You can’t disprove what I’ve said, so attack my family. Good try. You got me there.

  29. EA, yes, I agree with you. Rape does remove choice, but the child should be punished for the crime of the father?

  30. The way to look at abortion is win win. First that little bundle of mustard seed size cells gets to go directly to heaven, to be with our lord Jesus, in all his glory. Amen. And the woman, as long as she believes that Christ died on the cross for our sins, as long as she accepts the lord as her savior, she just has to pray for forgiveness. Amen. And it’s all good.

  31. PP does not perform abortion with Federal dollars. Rape and unwanted pregnancies cost money.

    Bringing an unwanted child into being does no one any favors. If you consider yourself a “compassionate Christian conservative” by advocating unwanted children to be born then you are sadly mistaken.

    Having known a couple of women who have had abortions, (and probably many that I don’t know about), I know that NONE of them took the decision lightly.

    So Cheryl, since you have refused to admit that you are willing to pay increased taxes in order to support these children, it’s safe to assume that you aren’t. That’s some “Christian compassion” you have going there!

  32. This bugs me. I post all of the time and do NOT want to be confused with Cheryl The Right Winger, who has been posting up to now in this particular blog.

    Just know this, everyone: if it sounds like Paul Ryan or Rush and the name is Cheryl – it’s not me.

    Cheryl Johns

  33. Sydney: I believe it was EA who brought the bible into this conversation.

    Craig: You better inform Abby Johnson, the former PP Director who left PP, that federal dollars were never used… .

    And, I’ll tell you what Craig, if I myself had to pay additional taxes, and my additional taxes meant babies would no longer be aborted, then yes, I would. Is that what you wanted me to say? Or did you think I would say no? But, as I stated earlier (twice) I believe it to be a moot point since most single parents work as hard as they can to provide for their families. I would pay as much as I could afford to pay to save the life of a child. I would open my home to the child that was unwanted. But, with the amount of couples seeking to adopt a baby… I don’t think there are any unwanted babies….I would do anything and everything in my power to see that a child had a chance to live his or her life and become all that he or she could be.

  34. Cheryl Johns

    You can thank the owner of this site. He hi-jacked my words from FB and started the whole thing. And you can rest assure, Cheryl, I’m sure these fella’s are smart enough to tell us apart. Especially since your last name starts with a “J” and mine starts with a “T.”

    And, once again… slam personally when you can’t argue. You got me too, Cheryl (Not the right-winger one…the other one).

  35. Cheryl. Your “hijacked” words were written on my Facebook page. I thought you articulated your thoughts well and they deserved a wider audience.

    Are you aware of what conditions were like before Roe v. Wade? For your consideration:

    Methods of unsafe abortion include:

    Trying to break the amniotic sac inside the womb with a sharp object or wire (for example an unbent wire clothes hanger or knitting needle). This method can result in infection, and injury to internal organs (for example perforating the intestines), resulting in death.

    Pumping toxic mixtures, such as chili peppers and chemicals like alum, permanganate or plant poison into the body of the woman. This method can cause the woman to go in to toxic shock and die.

    Inducing an abortion without medical supervision by self-administering abortifacient drugs obtained illegally or by using drugs not indicated for abortion but known to result in miscarriage and/or uterine contraction.

    Unsafe abortions often occur where abortion is illegal.

    Unsafe abortion is a major cause of injury and death among women worldwide. Although data are imprecise, it is estimated that approximately 20 million unsafe abortions are performed annually, with 97% taking place in developing countries.[31] Unsafe abortion is believed to result in approximately 69,000 deaths and millions of injuries annually.[31] The legal status of abortion is believed to play a major role in the frequency of unsafe abortion.

    There are many essays on what it was like in the days before abortion became legal. Here is one by a doctor who was there on the front lines.

    I saw and treated almost every complication of illegal abortion that one could conjure, done either by the patient herself or by an abortionist — often unknowing, unskilled and probably uncaring. Yet the patient never told us who did the work, or where and under what conditions it was performed. She was in dire need of our help to complete the process or, as frequently was the case, to correct what damage might have been done.

    The patient also did not explain why she had attempted the abortion, and we did not ask. This was a decision she made for herself, and the reasons were hers alone. Yet this much was clear: The woman had put herself at total risk, and literally did not know whether she would live or die.

    This, too, was clear: Her desperate need to terminate a pregnancy was the driving force behind the selection of any method available.

    Is going back to the days of coat hangers and ignorance what you really want, Cheryl? Is working toward advancing better sex education for young people not a more productive way to spend your time and energy?

    Everyone wants fewer abortions. Your way only endangers the lives of women.

  36. Cheryl –

    I applaud you – you’ve done your best and followed your heart, and lived by your own principles. Good.

    I also know what its like to think I’m pregnant and wonder what I’m going to do with another mouth to feed.

    But can you not consider that everyone else out there is not YOU? Consider the 16 year old who is deathly afraid of telling her parents she is pregnant for fear they will throw her into the streets – no way to finish her education and still a child herself who will now have the responsibility of raising a child. And, yes, there is the option of adoption – but these, too, are difficult decisions.

    Think it doesn’t happen? Yes, it does. And there are a myriad of other stories that are as different from this as your own.

    I’m sorry, but it it simply not your place to make decisions for other people…no more than them having the right to tell you that with a deadbeat father, you MUST have an abortion.

    These are, for women and often their partners, the most difficult decisions they will ever make – but it is their decision and you should have no right to choose for another – no more than they should have the right to choose for you.

    All your facts/figures/ and, yes, distortions of facts matter not one whit.

    Each woman, or couple must have the right to make the decision that is right for them…not you.

    And ending Planned Parenthood funding will only increase the number of abortions when those who cannot afford birth control have no where else to obtain them.

    Planned Parenthood does so much more than abortions. And the reason more abortions are performed there than anywhere else is because of what the right has done to ob-gyns (such as killing them) – pushing them into just a few locations so they can be harassed at will. It so much easier to go after a single target, than a bunch of them scattered all around the city.

    Abortion has been with us since the beginning of time and it will always be so – unless medicine advances to the point that we can have pregnancy on demand. Doesn’t matter whether it’s legal or not. Women who simply cannot have a child or another child will do what they feel is necessary when pushed to that limit. It is what it is – laws will not change it. The only thing the laws have done is make is safer.

    So go take care of your boys – I’m sure they are fine young men. Hug them, tell them you love them – and to keep their zippers zipped until they are ready to become fathers — or be a smart mom and make sure they have plenty of condoms at hand. Because nature controls the hormones — we were built to procreate – not the mind. And, yes, it’s a real pain to have to wait for the condom, but I wouldn’t rely on the pill alone – first off she may be lying about it and second they are not 100% effective. Also, I hear the male birth control pill is coming soon. I’m sure it will be expensive when first released, so better start saving for it, because if Romney wins, they won’t be covered under any insurance plan you have. Nor will those babies, if she’s 16.

    Hmmm. what happened to redState and Marcus – I was sure they’d be here commenting on how they still supported Ryan regardless of his association with the science teacher, Akin.

    Too bad being on the Science and Technology Committee he didn’t hitch a ride on Curiosity. I’m sure he would have loved seeing Mars — rather than sticking around for the landslide loss that’s coming his way in November.

    When is the next launch? Maybe we can buy tickets for the whole lot of them!

  37. First of all, we are not in the “old days,” the coat hanger propaganda is outdated.

    But, for the sake of argument, lets use that analogy.

    A woman, who, by her own hands terminates her pregnancy using a coat hanger and gets an infection.

    In today’s modern world:

    #1. She would go to the hospital and antibiotics would be given to her to counteract the infection.
    #2. If her life is threatened, life saving measures would be taken to ensure her recovery.
    #3. If she refused any treatment, or waited too late to get treatment, she would die.

    In your words, that is unacceptable, BUT, the execution of a developing baby is acceptable.
    What a contradiction! You use the death of the woman to justify the death of another human being! Do you even see how much of a contradiction that is? Some use population control as justification for abortion… as disgusting as this next statement sounds, from a population control stance, what is the problem with the woman’s death if you believe there are too many people on the earth?

    Dianna: You have a self defeating argument because you state that I am imposing my beliefs on others while you impose yours on a developing human being that cannot speak up for him or her self!

    You use rape and incest as justification to execute the innocent bystander, yet refuse to listen to those who have become pregnant by rape and incest. Those who say they are traumatized by the abortion more so than they are by the rape itself. Or, those women who choose to give life to “THEIR” baby (their own reference) that are scandalized and ridiculed because they believe the child should not be punished for the crime of the father. Have you yourself counseled these women? have you cried with these women? Have you held the hand of a young mother? You spout the rhetoric of an industry that reaped over 18.5 Million dollars in profit that uses women to continue its profit?

    I am beside myself that we, as a nation, will fight tooth and toenail to save an egg with a developing Bald Eagle fetus, yet throw our own away on the trash heap, and joyfully so! Yes, abortion has been around since the dawn of time… and yet, in a so-called enlightened and modern society, the killing of babies still exists… Instead of sacrificing our new born children to Molech on a red hot stone, we’re butchering them in the place that should be the safest place on earth! And you have the nerve to say I’m spouting antiquated notions?! Abortion is as antiquated as they come! It matters not that modern medicine is now involved in the death of our children, it is a practice that dates back thousands of years!

    I was alive when Roe vs Wade happened. I also have read up on the woman who was “Roe.” I’ve also read up on Dr. Bernard Nathanson who was one of the original founders of the NARAL — National Association for the Repeal of the Abortion Laws in the United States during 1968. A man who preformed approximately 75,000 abortions and left the industry exposing the lies Roe vs Wade was built on. I quote:

    We persuaded the media that the cause of permissive abortion was a liberal enlightened, sophisticated one. Knowing that if a true poll were taken, we would be soundly defeated, we simply fabricated the results of fictional polls. We announced to the media that we had taken polls and that 60% of Americans were in favor of permissive abortion. This is the tactic of the self-fulfilling lie. We aroused enough sympathy to sell our program of permissive abortion by fabricating the number of illegal abortions done annually in the U.S. The actual figure was approaching 100,000 but the figure we gave to the media repeatedly was 1,000,000. Repeating the big lie often enough convinces the public. The number of women dying from illegal abortions was around 200-250 annually. The figure we constantly fed to the media was 10,000. These false figures took root in the consciousness of Americans convincing many that we needed to crack the abortion law. Another myth we fed to the public through the media was that legalizing abortion would only mean that the abortions taking place illegally would then be done legally. In fact, of course, abortion is now being used as a primary method of birth control in the U.S. and the annual number of abortions has increased by 1500% since legalization.

    Here

    Cheryl J, I read the HuffPo letter from Eve Ensler and I agree, there must be compassion for the woman who has been brutalized through rape, especially those in Third World countries where civil war is common (I’ve recently returned from Africa). I agree women who have been raped need our hearts to go out to them. We need to protect them. And, as a rape survivor myself, I do believe we must stop the atrocities of rape, but how does killing the child help a woman to heal? Ms. Ensler has taken up a lofty goal, and I applaud her for that, but she took abortion as the answer and in my opinion (and the opinion of other rape victims who have become pregnant) abortion adds insult to injury. But please, explain to me how having compassion on the developing baby is turning our back on the woman who carries the child? Why not have outrage over a government who allows such atrocities to take place? Africa is filled with war, on all sides. Ghana is one of the only countries in Africa that has not had a civil war taking place.Those in power or those with the biggest guns are the ones who keep the citizens poor and in much need. Compassion needs to be shown, yes, but not only to the woman, but to the child who is also an innocent bystander. Compassion is short lived when you advocate the death of one human being over the other–and what else is a developing “Fetus” but the offspring of a human being. And before anyone “goes there,” a human being will always produce another human being.

    And, Mario, you are correct. It was your FB wall that was posted to, my bad. My friend had shared your page when I commented from his page. No worries from me though. I appreciate the opportunity to speak out against abortion any chance I get. Although, I don’t think your fans agree!

  38. Of course, you are correct, Cheryl. In today’s “modern” world no one would think of using a coat hanger — after all, most these days are plastic anyway.

    But how about herbal abortions?

    As you’ll see these, too can be quite dangerous as it puts toxins in your body that could be fatal to both the zygote and the mother.

    And, yes, that is unacceptable – cells in the process of forming a human being are NOT a human being. The have no emotions, no brain, no central nervous system, etc.

    When the GOP takes the position that all life is precious – including the plants, wildlife, and the planet we live on, along with human life they have no problem in extingushing through lies that take us into unlawful wars, along with those being executed in various state across this country….when that happens, you might, just might, be able to get on your horse and ride out into the countryside and change some minds.

    Or the GOP’s desire to make drastic cuts to Medicaid that provides services to both seniors and the poor – most of whom are children. Or foodstamps…again mainly provided for poor children and the elderly and disabled.

    You decry the value of life, yet the party you support clearly has no respect for life once it exits the womb and takes the first breath. After all, if that child is born with an existing “condition,” too bad for that child, no healthcare for you according to the GOP. Steven Hawking would have died under the GOP health care they choose to provide.

    And to that the BOP adds the moronic approach of taking away birth control pills (replacing with it abstinence which is a joke) that would keep women from becoming pregnant 94+% of the time and would drastically reduce the NEED for abortion.

    Until then, you and those in the party you support have NO STANDING to to make any arguments regarding your version of life.

    No, Cheryl, I’m not imposing my beliefs on anyone — I am allowing others to choose for themselves. Whereas you want a blanket edict that everyone must live by.

    Let me tell you about my mother. She was 13 when her mother died. She was the oldest child of 8 children. When her mother died, her father decided to take all of them back to Canada to the homestead he left there earlier. My mother never told me, but her sister did, that my grandfather raped my mother at the age of 13. In later years she was date raped (she shared that with me after 45 years). Luckily neither time was she impregnated. What does it tell you that my mother would never admit to the shame of having been raped by her father. Imagine, just imagine what it would have been like for her to have born her father’s child? My mother was saved by Canandian authorities who learned the children had been left alone by their father to fend for themselves after the food ran out. He showed up in time to see them being taken away to an orphan’s home in Moosejaw.

    As for “holding the hand’ of a young mother and counseling them — oh, yes, I’ve done just that – with my own daughter who became pregnant at 16. I was so wrapped up in working two jobs after my husband dumped me for a younger woman, I was blind to the fact that she needed birth control. She reached out and I asked for “abstinence” and, of course, that didn’t happen. I offered her the option of abortion or adoption or keeping the child. I told her it was HER decision to make, not mine, because it was a decison that she would live with, not me, the rest of her life. She chose to keep the child and I supported her in every way with that decision (there are many parents I have discovered that don’t.)

    Cheryl – mind your own business and leave the rest of us alone to mind our own business, would you? It is after all also the position of the GOP that we should all pull ourselves up by our own bootstraps and government should get out of our way, right?

    So please get your small government out of our way, because I really don’t think we should find it imprinted on the head of a vaginal probe.

  39. Diana;

    Zygotes in the womb of a human woman AREN’T human beings? What are they then? Puppies? Whether the developing human being is one cell dividing into two and two into four, or deep into the third trimester, if left to actually be born, the outcome 100% of the time, a real life human being is born in baby form. All a Zygote is, is a human being in the beginning stages of life. Every single human being on the face of the earth went through & goes through the exact same process from conception to birth. There are no other “things” developing in the womb of a human female. And, zygotes are fetuses long before a woman realizes she is pregnant. All surgical abortions are preformed on developing “Fetuses” (Offspring of the human being).

    Science tells us that: ON Day 1 of conception ALL HUMAN CHROMOSOMES ARE PRESENT–therefore it cannot be a puppy. At day 22 of gestation the human embryo has its own blood supply and its heart is beating. By the end of third week the child’s backbone spinal column and nervous system are forming. Weeks 6 & 7; Brain waves are detectable; mouth and lips are present; fingernails are forming. Eyelids, and toes form, nose distinct. The baby is kicking and swimming. At 8 weeks gestation, every organ is in place, bones begin to replace cartilage, and the childs fingerprints begin to form. By the 8th week the baby can begin to hear. By weeks 9 and 10 the baby’s teeth begin to form & its fingernails develop. The baby can turn his head, and frown, and hiccup. In week 10 the baby also “breathes” amniotic fluid and pees Week 11 Every organ in the child’s body is functioning. The baby has a skeletal structure, nerves, and circulation.

    That all sounds very human to me. But, you can abort all the way up through the second trimester too, so lets examine that development.

    Week 12: The baby has all of the parts necessary to experience pain, including nerves, spinal cord, and thalamus. Vocal cords are complete. The baby can suck its thumb. Week 14: At this age, the heart pumps several quarts of blood through the body every day.Month 4: Bone Marrow is now beginning to form. The heart is pumping 25 quarts of blood a day. By the end of month 4 the baby will be 8-10 inches in length and will weigh up to half a pound. Week 17: The baby can have dream (REM) sleep. At 20 weeks the baby recognizes its’ mothers voice. In Months 5 and 6: The baby practices breathing by inhaling amniotic fluid into its developing lungs. Most mothers feel an increase in movement, kicking, and hiccups from the baby. Oil and sweat glands are now functioning. The baby is now twelve inches long or more, and weighs up to one and a half pounds. Here

    That all still sounds quite human to me, with the capabilities to have emotions, a brain that has already developed, and a central nervous system.

    I’ve seen the pictures and read the “This is my abortion.” The only thing that proves is what is suctioned out is bloody. What they don’t show you in that photo is the pieces they must count to make sure nothing is left in the womb otherwise an infection would set in. The woman getting the abortion is never allowed to see the “pieces.” How about watching an actual abortion and the by-products of one?

    When did I ever say I supported the GOP? You ASSUME that I am Republican because I disagree with you. I think the GOP is just as big of a bafoon as the Democrats are. Obamacare wasn’t passed for the people sake, Obamacare was passed to kiss the backside of the Insurance companies (since they are the real beneficiaries of that massive piece of legislation) and to pass laws that break the backs of the poor. No one has any idea how THAT is going to be paid for when we borrow money to pay our bills now! But, that is off topic.

    So, because the GOP is involved in wars and people get killed in wars, THAT is enough to justify the execution of a human being that cannot defend itself? (I might add and all the Democrats who had to give their little John Hancock in order for any sitting President to go to war…since NO PRESIDENT can make those decisions by himself… Oooops, didn’t Obama have Bin Laden killed and isn’t he still sending troops into Afghanistan who are being shot and killed by the very men they are training?…isn’t that the pot calling the kettle black? That makes your argument a moot point).

    Again, in today’s modern world, if a woman uses herbal abortion methods and she finds herself in need of a hospital (or someone around her determines she needs one) she would still get medical help. That didn’t change the answer.

    I’m part of a group that does not rely on the government to give aid to those who need help. We help because there is a need, not because we can score political points. And, again, since I am not affiliated with the GOP, that is a moot point. Government isn’t the answer.

    Did you not read what Dr. Nathanson admitted to? Roe vs Wade was SUPPOSED to reduce the NEED for abortions, yet it had increased the number of abortions by 1500%! As more TRUTH about abortion and the developing human being is understood,with advances in 3 & 4 D Ultrasound and the ability to view the baby like never before, over the past decade, abortions have been reduced People are understanding that the “Fetus” is actually a little human being in baby form. But the rhetoric from those who want to preserve the money making machine confuses the issue and distorts what is medically verifiable.

    You mentioned the people killed by wars endorsed by the GOP, yet, 3,200 citizens of the United States, my fellow human beings, are being executed every single day in the United States through abortion. Do I hate the death caused by war? I abhor the death of all innocent human beings. But, condemning the GOP for the death of innocent people by war, and then advocating for the death of someone who can’t even try to protect itself, leaves your argument wanting.

    I’m sorry for what happened to your mother. I was 7 the first time I was raped by a so-called friend of my father, and age 15 the last time I was molested. So, I understand what your mother went through. I’ve also been used when, as a single mother, after leaving my abusive husband of 3 & 1/2 years while I was 5 months pregnant w/my 3rd child, the man I worked for took advantage of a poor working woman desperate to make a living for her family because the dead beat father wouldn’t help. There are evil people in the world, I agree 100%. your mother did what she had to do to survive. She deserves a medal. And, I applaud your daughter for taking the initiative and giving birth to her child. These are real life stories that happen every day in our society, and they will continue to happen long after you and I are gone. Those things are horrific and they evoke such emotions in us. From that emotional standpoint abortion seems right, but again, to advocate the death of another human being is not the answer. If killing our children is okay, then the world doesn’t need to be mad at Casey Anthony, or any other human being that killed a child. But it infuriates us. Why? Because we look at the innocence and sweetness of that child and think.. “How can anyone be so heartless as to kill such a sweet little child who cannot defend him/her self against an adult?” Do you see a contradiction there? It’s not okay to kill a 2 year old child, but it’s okay to kill a child before its born. How does that even compute?

    Oh, Diana, you misunderstand. Advocating for those who cannot speak for themselves has nothing to do with your vagina, but everything to do with a human being that is being denied the very basic things you and I take for granted. Life. Advocating only for those human beings who have the ability to speak for themselves doesn’t take much on your part to do. Just “let em be & do.” But advocating for those human beings that cannot speak for themselves against the onslaught of misinformation and lies, takes guts and courage.

    During Hitlers reign, would you have “Let them be” during the execution of the Jews because it was “none of your business?” Or, would you have tried to reach out and save who you could? Same concept.

    When the voices of those who are not given the chance to speak are finally heard and are listened to, then, maybe I won’t need to speak on this matter anymore… But, imagine how many Jews survived because some Germans didn’t mind their own business. Imagine, if someone would have stuck their nose into Casey Anthony’s business a little sooner, her daughter might still be alive.

  40. And you misunderstand me, Cheryl – I advocate for people like you not to make decisions for other people. You don’t live their lives – regardless of what your’s is. You don’t have the right to make decisions for other people. PERIOD.

  41. Roe vs Wade was SUPPOSED to reduce the NEED for abortions, yet it had increased the number of abortions by 1500%!

    I suppose you have some cobbled-together fake statistics to back that up. In point of fact, you can have no such statistics, since the only abortions on record pre-Roe v. Wade are those for then-illegal abortions that were prosecuted. Pre-RvW that were not caught were not reported. They occurred, but statistically they do not exist. So it may be entirely possible that legal abortions are, indeed 1,500% higher than reported illegal ones, but nobody can possibly know the total number of unreported ones. Not you, not your organization, not me, not anyone.

    It’s also disingenuous to point to the demand for abortion pre-1973 and compare it to 1973 and later, because the number of women who may have wanted an abortion despite the fact that they were illegal may not have known how to find one. Finally, consider the fact that anywhere from 40% – 60% (statistics for which there are support) of all pregnancies spontaneously self-terminate, meaning that if you believe in a deity, you also fase the prospect of accepting that your deity is the biggest abortionist of all.

  42. Week 6 The embryo is about 1/5 of an inch in length. I doubt much more than bloody fluid would be more evident from the view this woman provided… however, once the nurse strains the fluid, as they must do to ensure the entire fetus has been expelled, it gives you a different picture.

    You don’t have the right to make decisions for other people. PERIOD.

    Yet, 3,200 times a day in the US, women are making death choices for developing “people” who are given no choice when it comes to their life. A contradiction.

  43. I suppose you have some cobbled-together fake statistics to back that up.

    http://www.abort73.com/abortion_facts/state_abortion_laws/, most abortions were illegal in most states. California and Colorado (in 1967) were the first states to legalize abortion in selective circumstances (rape, incest, severe handicap or pregnancies that threatened the life of the mother). In 1970, New York, Alaska, Washington and Hawaii became the only states to offer an “unrestricted” abortion policy similar to the one established through Roe v. Wade. Here

    For the record, Roe vs Wade took the right to regulate abortion away from the state and mandated each state to allow abortions through the first trimester should a woman so desire…for any reason. In the second trimester, her health was stated as the issue.

    And, as I pointed out earlier with Dr. Nathanson, the DR who oversaw 75,000 abortions and helped form the NARAL, he admitted to lying and deceiving the Supreme Court with fake polls and numbers. Not my words. His.

  44. Wait a minute -Nathanson claims he was personally responsible for 75K abortions, yet he LIED about the million then claimed that were being aborted.

    1) how would he know how many other docs were doing abortions (since it was illegal at the time) and
    2) if there were a bunch doing it (it was a pretty lucrative business for those who could afford the payment) and there were literally tens of thousands of docs out there – not to mention those in med school, then 1 million might have been correct.

    You see Cheryl – you just can’t make this stuff up. nor can Nathason, because he doesn’t know either. I’m sure docs didn’t send him their head count when they were done.

    What Roe v Wade did was protect the privacy of those who chose to get an abortion and told the state to butt out until they hit specific deadlines, after which abortions could not be done.

    So, Cheryl, please pretend you are a state entity and butt out of the private lives of other people. If the state doesn’t have the right to interfere in the private lives of people, what makes you think you should have that right.

    Make your own decisions, let others make their own.

  45. PS a 1/5 of an inch glob of cells does not a human make. All the seeds that hit the ground do not grow, either and you can’t eat most seeds (sunflower being one exception).

  46. I hate to jump on the “everyone argue with Cheryl” train because I think we all know this discussion is headed NOwhere. Cheryl, you seem like a well-meaning woman who is simply unable at this moment to wake up to the realities which exist in OTHER people’s lives. Furthermore, there are very real social consequences of asking people to parent when they do not have the resources to do so. What’s better? An aborted zygote/embryo or a neglected/abandoned/physically abused/sexually exploited child who faces a lifetime of challenges others will never remotely comprehend? And, that’s the best case scenario. The worst case scenario is that child grows up to dominate, control, hurt, and exploit others. Where exactly do you think all those people you Republicans are so afraid of actually come from??? Practice some self-preservation and read the DONOHUE-LEVITT HYPOTHESIS. Here’s a link to the original 2001 article.

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCwQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpricetheory.uchicago.edu%2Flevitt%2FPapers%2FDonohueLevittTheImpactOfLegalized2001.pdf&ei=rsU6UIiCGIPi0QGN84GADA&usg=AFQjCNEfFX4oPJiBZ7qeCfphscTehyyNQQ&sig2=qbYam_gfevfPhAlnsG-RXg

    Yes, there were a number of critiques in response to this article. In 2005 however, the authors incorporated these methodological critiques, re-ran the numbers, and found nearly identical results.

  47. Sarah….thanks for the link. You will never win over nor change the minds of people like Cheryl. Especially with FACTS. For as righteous the zealots are regarding “no abortion for ANY reason”, they are just as righteous regarding the truth about that hypothesis, they love the DEATH PENALTY just as much as they love rape babies. So for,the zealots……..the problem is solved. They not only believe that they are doing the work of god, they think that they are the HAND of god. Because according to them, god who made this entire universe and everything in it in 6 days, and who hears and answers all prayers and provides us with a LIFE after death and reunites us with our dead loved ones, a god who performs miracles, walks on water, and bestows riches on true believers, this god, their god, somehow NEEDS THEIR HELP forcing all woman to carry EVERY pregnancy to term.

  48. Diana:
    Apparently you do not want to accept evidence of a developing human being… and, if you would actually do your research you would find that “glob of cells” as you call it, has human DNA written all over it. You went through the same process.

    Can you honestly look at this 4-D Ultrasound and tell me this 11 week old fetus does not resemble a human being?

    And, as for being in your vagina… the only thing a vagina is involved in is the avenue in which sperm is desposited. Sperm leaves the vagina and meets the fertilized egg in the fallopion tubes where the human being begins. The vagina again is just an avenue in which instruments are used in the destruction of that life through aboriton. The uterus is where the controvery lies, not in your vagina.

    Sarah:
    “In May, law professor John R. Lott Jr. and economist John E. Whitley reported their findings that legalized abortion had helped loosen taboos against out-of-wedlock births, in turn leading to more single-parent families and more stressed families, and ultimately higher murder rates – by 0.5 percent to 7 percent.

    “There are many factors that reduce murder rates, but the legalization of abortion is not one of them,” said the report, published by Yale Law School.

    Even if statistical findings are repudiated, they can still perpetuate statistical myths.”

    According to the FBI, the crime rate, since 2005 has been on the rise, so apparently, in the last 7 years abortion clearly hasn’t helped. In 2005 Violent Crime was at one every 22.7 seconds. In 2010 (since 2011 numbers are pending) Violent crime happens every 25.3 seconds. Murder is up from 1 every 31.5 minutes in 2005 to 1 in every 35.6 in 2010. Forcible rape in 2005=1 in every 5.6 minutes 2010=1 in every 6.2 minutes. Robbery is up since 2009 by 0.1 and Aggrevated Assault rose from 36.5 in 2005 to 40.5 in 2010.

    Personally, I do not understand the mind set that because a baby MIGHT grow up to be a drain on society, or a criminal as you are pointing out, that it is justifiable to execute another human being. If that is the case. why is Sydney harping on the Death Penalty? If it is okay to execute a fetus because it might grow up to be a criminal, well, then, lets execute all the criminals currently overloading out penal system. They have already proven they are criminals! Sound harsh? No harsher than aborting a baby for the sins of his or her father.

    I am quite aware of other peoples situations. If I would have aborted my children because #1. Their father is a jerk or #2 because I was destitute, I would neve have the joy of knowing these men. Granted, there are horrific stories out there. Rape and incest at the top of the heart breaking story list. But, there are two victims when it comes to pregnancy by rape. The woman who was raped, and the child who resulted from it. I am also very well aware of the stories of the women who give birth to their babies even though the child was concieved in rape. I’ve heard their stories, but aparently, the abortion advocates refuse to.

    Abortion advocates say, “Let the woman choose” and when a woman, pregnant from rape, choses to give her baby life, she is ridiculed, shamed and accused of lying about the rape. Abortion advocates only care about keeping aboriton and have no use for women who don’t.

    Sydney:
    That doesn’t make any sense. You are ridicule me, accusing me of being for the death penalty for adults (adults who have murdered someone else), while you rally for the death penalty for babies in the womb using the crime of the child’s father as justification to exterminate the life of an innocent child. How is that reasoned out in your mind?

    And, from your religious zealot speech, it seems like you have been let down. That maybe God and your expectations did not match up or the people in the church didn’t meet your needs. I’m sorry for that.

    And, you’re right. My mind will never change about the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for ALL… including those U.S. citizens in the womb.

  49. Cheryl says, “…Apparently you do not want to accept evidence of a developing human being… and, if you would actually do your research you would find that “glob of cells” as you call it, has human DNA written all over it. You went through the same process…”

    A sperm cell also contains human DNA Cheryl, would you outlaw birth control also?

    You say “developing human being” some religions deny that the embryo is a human being. In the Jewish tradition the embryo is only considered a “potential human being” that can be terminated for the welfare of the mother and that includes her psychological as well as physical well being. Do you think your religious beliefs should trump the beliefs of another?

    If you don’t believe in abortion then you shouldn’t get one but you have no right to deny the procedure to those who don’t share your beliefs.

  50. Cheryl,
    you obviously have had a tough life and you care very much about this subject. No one will change your mind about this. But if you absolutely cannot see that legislating a woman’s body is considered wrong by the rest of us, then you don’t get it.

    When comparing the difference between scraping a few cells the size of a peanut off the wall of a uterus and forcing a woman to carry and birth a child – there is NO comparison. We can get complicated and anecdotal here, we can quote the Bible, but it boils down to freedom. women deserve the freedom to CHOOSE.

    I personally am against the act of abortion, but I am FOR choice. I am not a woman and I wouldn’t want women forcing me to do anything with my body, so I hold the same consideration for them. If I were a woman I would try my hardest to put myself in the position where I could either have the baby and give it up for adoption or raise it myself. Freedom of choice is what America stands for, not fundamentalism.

    What would you do to a woman who gets an abortion? Charge her with murder?

  51. Sperm by itself a baby does not make. moot point.

    And with modern technology (as I have supplied the link to 3 & 4 D ultra sounds) you can see for yourself the development of the tiny human inside the womb.

    Sharia law also permits a woman to be stoned to death because she gets raped while her rapist goes free. Should our laws trump Sharia in the U.S.? Murder is murder whether it is sanctioned by a religion or the U.S. Government.

    And yet, 3,200 times a day, life and death decisions are made for males and females without considering what their choice would be.

  52. OC Liberal

    I don’t think incarceration is the answer. I think a change of heart is needed, along with a change in the view we hold on “Life.” Life should be given more value than we Americans attribute to it in the womb. Each one of you who argue for the right to terminate a life inutero were already given the chance to live.

    America fights tooth and toenail for animal rights and protection for developing fetuses of animals, while we throw our own away. That does not make sense. Our laws can’t even agree when a person kills a pregnant woman and is charged with two counts of murder. How does that compute?

    CHOICE is such an illusion.

  53. Saving every zygote, amoeba, or cell in the human body not only is crazy – it is impossible. For those abortion nuts/people who can’t see the evidence of “climate change” and it’s potential damage to the planet and the human race, although evidence has been around for decades, they sure are eager to accept the “science” of so-called unborn zygotes.

    This concept is made up of one’s imagination of healthy full born babies all happy, bouncy and cheerful and the fairy tales of scripture mixed in with the science of biochemistry in which technically every thing in the human body has life. Out comes the sympathy/empathy for imagined happy endings.

    Well I say, A woman’s body is a woman’s body – whatever decision she makes should be her’s and all other’s should shut the heck up.
    Incredibly some people think everyone has “christian” or religious beliefs and judge everyone BY those personal concepts and story telling..
    well they are – WRONG !!!

    Legislating on abortion is stepping on someone’s freedom of religion or FROM religion. Don’t tell me about saving an “unborn” when we have many full grown adults going without the means to survive due to the policies of these very same people. Thousands of American’s and hundred’s of thousands more of civilians died in the wars started by these same “christians” or religious nuts.

    These people disgust me with their ignorance and hypocrisy – saving zygotes in the name of some unseen spirit indeed, when the truth is that nothing but nothing has caused MORE human deaths than the battles caused and started by those attempting to prove that “my invisible god is better than your invisible god”. ! Nuff said !

  54. Cheryl, you are NOT the boss of my body. I’m not about to share personal stories of my life, or that of anyone I know, and have known to make a point on what I’m am about to say.
    RAPE, Forced, coursed sexual contact of ANY kind is an “abomination.” AND that includes rape of boys, but we are talking about the female rape, because rape of a female can, and does leave lasting harm through an unwanted forced pregnancy. You are telling girls, woman that “you” have a moral, ethical right to dictate a woman’s choices concerning our bodies, and what goes in, and comes out of them, in the most PERSONAL of area’s of our entire body> The most personal, and sacred parts of our femininity that we hold within us. It does not matter, if forced, beaten, brutalized, a females vagina-uterus, her entire body becomes a non-human thing to do with what the rapist wants. You forever tie a filthy, disgusting, harmful CRIMINAL to the female that the crime was committed against. That is a serious life change for anyone, but as the result of Rape, where a MAN forces his Unwanted PENIS inside of a girl, inside of a woman, Vagina, and uterus, and even though the girl, woman, try so hard to fight off the assault, but her strength is no match for the rapist, and that is okay with you, and your group of thugs pretending to care about a person that has been criminally assaulted resulting in a serious change to her entire self as a human being. Her body, her emotions, her spirit, her personality, her overall health, her sence of self worth is altered, and damaged for the rest of her LIFE. But that’s ok? because the RAPIST forced his Unwanted Sperm into her Uterus resulting in one of her eggs, being fertilized. From that point on, you have devalued, dishonored, disrespected, and utterly without compassion, and caring, are determined to make the ongoing effects of a rapist’s crime against the victim, regardless of the long term harm to her, with your unwanted, unasked for decision to continue the pregnancy to full term. That makes you, and all of those that preach on this subject as you have, nothing but a bunch self righteous BULLIES!
    I honestly don’t care anymore that you, and all of those that follow this damaged thinking, what you think. I don’t care anymore that you believe you are right, when I know with every fiber of my being that you are so very WRONG!
    You don’t have anything that you can say to convince me that you have the right to make any type of choices for another person when you want to fake care, and love the assaulted to gain access to an unwanted fertilized egg, up to the second trimester. You do care far more about preserving the planted seed of a criminal, that most often never gets caught, and will never be able to repair the damages if he was. That’s what I keep hearing, and why I don’t say much about abortion anymore. Now, I’ve become part of the grass roots of our government that I am more then willing to fight for pro-choice, and keep it that way.

  55. Many kudo’s to Janet’s thoughtful, heartfelt, well put statement. Republicans care not about “people” – although they say they do – all they care about is the “concept” of what they believe their ideal is for the Country and the world.

    A concept so wrong as to believe that a “legitimately raped” women could never get pregnant because “she secretes some secretion” that would prevent it.

    The ignorance, stupidity and hypocrisy of the right wing, is well known and open for anyone with a clear objective mind to see.

    The party lead by religious nuts, racists, homophobes, xenophobes and other lunatic fringe funded, supported and manipulated by rich special interests like the Koch Brothers, the Adelsons, billionaires from Texas and others, are making their full court press to buy this election for their own misguided purpose.

    May enough Americans use their vote to NOT let that happen in November !

  56. Cheryl,

    Life should be given more value than we Americans attribute to it in the womb.

    You give more weight to the abstraction of “Life” than you give to the living, breathing, woman. THAT is where I disagree. Women and girls – the difficulties in their lives – THAT is whzt I care about more than an abstraction of a peanut being a baby. It is not.

    It sounds to me like you are coming from a religious point of view. That is your right. But don’t try to legislate other women’s bodies because you have specific religious doctrine controlling your judgement. As I said before, when comparing the act of forcing women to carry and birth a baby to scraping a peanut sized clump of cells off a uterus, there is no comparison.

  57. Cheryl
    I was raised catholic and I have read the bible and what I have concluded is that it is a real nice fictional story that was/is used to control the masses. My 3 girls are good hearted, caring, young ladies because they have empathey for other people, not because they are afraid some gods wrath. Although religious stories were discussed when they were growing up, they did not go to church.
    My husband believes, and I tell him that I think thats wonderful, and I hope for his sake and other believers that it is true, but as far as I am concerned, it is just a very nice story. And I do not want the laws that my family live under to be based on the bible. There is no difference between fundamentalist Christians and the Taliban.

  58. Golden SUn;
    Depending on whose science you listen to, determines the damage of global warming. I refuse to be sucked into it like I was when the world was heading toward the ice age back in the 70’s. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand the earth goes through cooling and heating periods.

    I find it quite humorous, not once have I used scriptures or religion to prove my point. I have used scientific evidence that apparently none of you accept, instead, you jump on the accusation bandwagon and fail to search out the answers for yourself. You scream intolerance at me, while you are quite intolerant of my point of view. Funny.

    No one is stupid enough to think every baby that is born is healthy & happy. BUT, each baby that is born HAS THE OPPORTUNITY to be. Every aborted baby NEVER HAS THE OPPORTUNITY.

    And for those who understand the science… the baby is NOT part of the woman’s body. The child is a separate being apart from the mother with a separate blood type; a complete separate body. The only part of the woman’s body is the uterus and nutrition supplied through the placenta.

    And I hate to be the one to inform you, but THIS present administration is at fault for our current economic situation. They may have been handed a bad deal 4 years ago, but Obama ran with it and created more debt in less time. And, I don’t believe a human being needs to be killed because the powers that be in Washington can’t get their heads out of their rear ends long enough to pay attention to what is happening to this country. That includes Dems & Repubs who care more about the interest groups and the money their campaigns get from them. If corrupt Gov’t officials would be held accountable and fired, we would be quite surprised at how much we actually have in the country! Wishful thinking, this I know. But, another human being, no matter how far in the development stage he or she is, does not need to be exterminated over the failings of our government.

    And, Golden SUn, you’ve proved my own point for me with your Georgetown Law Journal.

    This Note argues that the absence of these laws stems from the societal images and other rhetoric concerning the pregnant raped woman that depict raped women as hating their unborn children and viewing their rape regnancies as continuing their rape experience. These societal constructions have created a biased “prototype” of the pregnant
    raped woman and of the prototypical rape pregnancy experience by which all pregnant raped women are judged. Women who raise their rape-conceived children depart from the prototype and are, as a result, viewed with suspicion

    What the abstract states is a need for laws to protect those women who raise their rape conceived children without having the rapist be a part of their lives. I agree with that. There do need to be laws in place to protect those women and children from the rapist, but the powers that be would rather her abort that child than provide her with laws to protect her and her child!

    OC Liberal-read above.

    Sydney:

    Historical evidence gives us proof that the moment the Jews of the early church converted from Judaism to Christianity, they were “marked” for persecution and/or death, imprisonment and torture. When Roman Catholicism ruled, I agree with you, it was used to control the masses and to keep the coffers full. But, real Christianity has absolutely nothing to do with a “religion.”

    I personally hate religion as much as I hate politics. Following the tenants of a religion no more makes one a Christian than walking into a garage makes me a car. True Christianity, entails “laying down ones life and picking up the life of Christ.” The life of Christ includes suffering and persecution. Is that what you mean by modern day “controlling the masses?” Or, are you referring to the sugar coated, ear tickling, ego stroking, only believe and you’ll be rich, name and claim your healing, pay your 10% tithe gospel that is pan handled in today’s churches? I’ll go with the true followers of Jesus Christ before I ever touch the crap they shove at people today.

    And, I beg to differ: The Taliban/Extremist Muslims would rather kill you if you refuse to convert to Islam…
    The Taliban regularly rape women and kill them by holding them down and throwing huge rocks against their heads until their brains spill out. The Taliban expect women to wear Burkha’s then accuse them of sexually exciting a man with their fingertips. They expect women to remain unschooled, and in the house. A woman who is raped is buried up to her neck and then stones are thrown at her head. They don’t want to see a woman’s body unless they crawl in bed with either their wife, or the hooker they pay for. Christians (and by that term I mean true Christians by the definition I gave above) would rather pray for you and speak the truth that actions have consequences. True Christians turn the other cheek (although, today’s brand Christian has no idea what that means). Christians help the needy and the destitute, feeding the poor and helping the homeless. Christians have been seen cleaning up the streets of a town, or, EGADS, passing out literature that would lead you to repent!…

    Yeah… I can see the resemblance #sarcasm.

    Janet
    When have I said I agree with rape? Rape is one of the vilest things a man can do to a woman. Rape is about power and control over a woman and it is NEVER OK. The fear instilled in a woman during and after, the pain endured during and after, the emotions, the tears, all of it continues on for years after a rape is a horrific circumstance of an assault that should have never taken place. I believe a rapist is mentally ill, and needs some kind of medication to help control his urges and needs to be behind bars. But, what if we just killed the rapist? Would that work?

    You don’t have to tell me your story, but for your story, I am sorry for what you have had to go through.

    But, I would ask if you have read or listen to the stories of those women who have chosen life for the babies they became impregnated with from rape? have you considered the coercion to abort from well meaning people, and doctors and nurses? have you read the horror of additional trauma women, who gave in to the pressure to abort, have gone through as a result of that abortion? Have you considered their emotional stories of how the trauma of the abortion was more horrific than the rape itself? Have you considered their statements that they are sick and tired of abortion proponents using their pain to support their abortion agenda?


    Here, I’ll make it easy for you
    .

    “Often I cry. Cry because I could not stop the attacks. Cry because my daughter is dead. And I cry because it still hurts.” -Edith Young

    “They say abortion is the easy way out, the best thing for everyone, but they are wrong. It has been over 15 years, and I still suffer.” -”Rebecca Morris”

    “After the abortion, I wanted to die. How could I live when I had just ended the life of my child? The negative feelings resulting from the rape were not eliminated by the abortion. Nothing was solved; instead,the grief was now doubled.” Helene Evans

    “Abortion does not help or solve a problem-it only compounds and creates another trauma for the already grieving victim by taking away the one thing that can bring joy.” -Helene Evans

    “The effects of the abortion are much more far-reaching than the effects of the rape in my life.” -”Patricia Ryan”

    “I, having lived through rape, and having raised a child ‘conceived in rape,’ feel personally assaulted and insulted every time I hear that abortion should be legal for rape and incest. I feel that we’re being used to further the abortion issue, even though we’ve not been asked to tell our side of the story.” -Kathleen DeZeeuw

    “I thank God for the strength He gave me to go through the bad times and for all of the joy in the good times. I will never regret that I chose to give life to my daughter.” -Mary Murray

    “I never wished that my son had never been born. He was the only good thing about the rape. It gave me comfort to think of making some other couple happy. If I had taken his life there would have been no good.”
    “Connie Sellers”

    “I was an innocent victim of a horrible crime. I was not to blame for what the rapist did to me. But in choosing to abort, to kill the innocent child growing within me, I lowered myself to the level of the rapist.” “Patricia Ryan”

    You can find more in the book Victims and Victors: Speaking Out About Their Pregnancies, Abortions, and Children Resulting from Sexual Assault

    Yes, there are women who have abortions because of rape, and my heart goes out to them just as it does to the woman who decides to give her baby life in spite of the rape. But pregnancy by rape is never just about the woman, it is also about the other victim… the child. And, from what I have read, only a minority of rape victims actually abort and when they do, the guilt they feel over the abortion is worse than the rape itself.

  59. Depending on whose science you listen to, determines the damage of global warming. I refuse to be sucked into it like I was when the world was heading toward the ice age back in the 70?s. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand the earth goes through cooling and heating periods.

    Try listening to the science of the 97% of climate scientists who all agree that global warming is the real deal and is for the most part, man made. You obviously have neither a respect nor an understanding of science, so yes, I will never mistake you for a rocket scientist. As soon as I hear a Denier bring up the thoroughly debunked ‘70s ‘Earth is Cooling‘ idiocy, I immediately understand that I’m facing someone who has completely bought into the BS of the fossil fuel industry and has no idea what she is talking about on this issue.

    With all due respect, Cheryl, I’d stay away from talking about science. Politically tainted science is not science. It’s garbage.

  60. That was my point, Mario, the cooling theory of the 70’s was nothing more than crap the alarmist waved in our faces to scare us into compliance.

    The “recent” climatic record is: 600 to 200 BC — pre-Roman cold period; 200 BC to 600 AD — Roman warming; 600 to 900AD — Dark Ages cold period; 900 to 1300 — medieval warming; 1300 to 1850 — Little Ice Age; 1850 to present — warming.

    The present warming has so far amounted to about 0.8 degree centigrade, far short of the two previous warmings; however, we can reasonably expect it to persist for hundreds of years and attain the same temperatures as its two predecessors.

    Michael Mann produces a study supposedly showing nearly flat temperatures for 900 years followed by a massive run up in the 20th century. It was even featured in the U.N.’s 2001 Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) report. It has since been widely discredited. Critics plausibly charge that Mann had to have known how badly he was misusing the data.

    The 1996 IPCC report stated that mankind’s fingerprint were found on global warming. A U.S. government employee admitted removing five statements to the contrary while acting under pressure from top U.S. government officials.

    -The earth began warming up (according to scientists) 20,000 years ago. I don’t think humans burned fossil fuel then.

    – The 97%, are they all from the IPCC? Because, there are also a vast majority of scientists who disagree with the global warming theory (30,000 compared to the 3,000 of the IPCC-and yes, I am aware of the controversy). So again, it depends on whose theory you take to heart.

    Oh, so now I’m a denier. Ok, I’ll take that one on the chin.

  61. A smile for you, GoldenSUn. :) Thanks.
    A very knowledgeable group of folks on the subject at hand, I must say.

  62. Cheryl –
    Re – “Science and technology” in regards to climate change, I’m sure you would admit that it has made great strides since the “70’s” the evidence is not even in question anymore.

    Re “abortion” – Ending the growing process of a “zygote” is NOT abortion. That is a right wing nut job talking point designed to cause more divisiveness in this election.

    The word “abortion” came into discussion in the context of a fetus further along in formation. Roe v Wade a Solomon like decision in my view, defined “viable” as being “potentially able to live outside the mother’s womb, albeit with artificial aid”, adding that viability “is usually placed at about seven months (28 weeks) but may occur earlier, even at 24 weeks.”

    You state you have no religious reasons for your position, which is rare but good. So basically your point of view on this issue is your own opinion based on whatever knowledge you choose to accept or not on the subject.

    Re – “Tolerance”, it means just that, being “tolerant” of others views especially if you don’t agree with them. Most of those posting on here, including myself, are tolerant of your views, we believe them to be wrong but by all means don’t have an abortion even if you are raped, or even if your life depends on one, that is your decision and you have every right to make it.

    The “intolerance” comes in when people with your views claim the “high ground” and self-proclaim that because “I am right” everyone should follow along my views and in fact make laws (more than a thousand voted on nationwide since Republicans took Congress) that would make it illegal if you don’t.

    THAT, my dear is “intolerance” (and in my view Fascist).

    Wow your statement that “the baby is not part of the woman’s body” is a new revelation, which raises the point, if it is NOT part of her body then she has the right to chose it not to be IN her body.

    Your statement that the President “may have been handed a bad deal 4 years ago, but Obama ran with it and created more debt in less time” is so based on ignorance that it makes one doubt your intelligence.

    Republicans started 2 decades long wars costing trillions of dollars, an unfunded medicare plan costing multiTRILION dollars for insurance companies, all while cutting trillions more in tax revenue mostly to the rich – meaning that Republicans had to put the cost for the above programs and others, on the Chinese credit card.

    There’s much more but suffice it to say when Republicans left office – they did NOT pay up the tab put on that Chinese credit card, NO…their policies resulted in the Worst Economic Crisis ever and they left the massive bills for the next guy, who had to pay the billions of dollars a day for the cost of 2 wars, who had to bail out the banks, install stimulus programs all to save the American economy from the brink of destruction. Cheryl we tolerate you – but you’re still wrong !!!

    To Janet – a smile back to you with a great day and many wonderful tomorrows to enjoy it with – stay strong !

  63. Hey, Cheryl – I’ve got a news flash for you, The Koch Bros funded scientist – who has been the biggest skeptic regarding global warming — that the GOP has used for years to back up their position, Richard Muller, has come out with this conclusion:

    Global Warming is real and it caused by humans.

    http://ecowatch.org/2012/climate-skeptic-koch-funded/

    Read it and weep for all the years you have been spoon fed lies that have probably doomed the planet and all those little zygotes you’ve worked so hard to protect.

    When the planet is no longer a viable place to live, they will no longer matter, will they?

  64. Thanks Diana.

    But, I’ll wait for another 30 years to see what alarm bell is ringing then. Do my part to be a responsible human being. And, when the backers of solar energy are laughing themselves all the way to the bank… I’ll still be waiting for the world to end.

    And, zygotes aren’t usually aborted, unless, of course, you take RU 486, then the fertilized egg is expelled. It is an embryo that is attached to the uterine wall and can therefore be aborted. Most of the time though, a woman doesn’t even know she is pregnant when the “development of her human offspring” is called a zygote. It is only after a couple weeks (if she does not constantly keep track of her cycle) of that zygote developing into a human embryo.

    Golden
    If the unborn child were actually a part of the mother’s body, the unborn child’s cells would have the same genetic code as the cells of the mother. This is not the case. Every cell of the unborn child’s body is genetically distinct from every cell in the mother’s body.

    The mother’s blood type and the baby’s blood type are separate.

    In approximately half of all pregnancies, the unborn child is a male, meaning that in almost half of all pregnancies, even the sex of the child is different from the mother.

    “A Chinese zygote implanted in a Swedish woman will always be Chinese because his identity is based on his genetic code, not on that of the body in which he resides.” (Randy Alcorn)

    It is possible for a fetus to die while the mother lives, and it is possible for the mother to die while the fetus lives. This could not be true if the mother and child were simply one person.

    It is illegal to execute a pregnant woman on death row because the fetus living inside her is a distinct human being who cannot be executed for the crimes of the mother (International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights: Article 6.5).

    Sir Albert Liley (the “Father of Fetology”) made this observation in a 1970 speech entitled, “The Termination of Pregnancy or the Extermination of the Fetus?”

    Physiologically, we must accept that the conceptus is, in a very large measure, in charge of the pregnancy…. Biologically, at no stage can we subscribe to the view that the fetus is a mere appendage of the mother.

    The late Christopher Hitchens, a prominent public intellectual, atheist, and abortion advocate wrote the following in his book, God is Not Great:

    As a materialist, I think it has been demonstrated that an embryo is a separate body and entity, and not merely (as some really did used to argue) a growth on or in the female body. There used to be feminists who would say that it was more like an appendix or even—this was seriously maintained—a tumor. That nonsense seems to have stopped… Embryology confirms morality. The words “unborn child,” even when used in a politicized manner, describe a material reality

    .

    Sure, Hitchens had other reasons for supporting legal abortion, but he did recognize the absurdity of claiming that unborn children are simply part of the mother’s body.

    “The fetus behaves in a much more complex way than previously imagined… During her odyssey in the womb she will smile, recognize her mother’s voice and maybe even dream.” In the Womb, National Geographic, 2005.

    Researchers now know that the fetus must excrete precise hormone mixes through the placenta to protect itself from the hostile immune system of the mother. Without these protective secretions the uterus would reject the fetus as a foreign substance.

    Then, just for added kicks, pictures from the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry. A Display of Embryo and Fetal Pictures Exhibit.

  65. Cheryl you have all the characteristics of a well informed Democrat. You even research and state documented evidence for your comments. It is obvious you have some sort of experience in the medical field.
    Something in your genetics or life experience has twisted what would be a reasonable, knowledgeable mind and has voided you of all common sense and reality.
    Emotions and ideals are great – real life is much much different.
    Despite your opinions, I respect and like you. Carry on dear ! We eventually may agree on something.

  66. But, I’ll wait for another 30 years to see what alarm bell is ringing then. Do my part to be a responsible human being. And, when the backers of solar energy are laughing themselves all the way to the bank… I’ll still be waiting for the world to end.

    You hope, Cheryl, you hope. But what if you’re wrong – after all you have depended upon science to bring you so much in life – yet this is the one thing that 98% of all scientists of various scientific endeavors from climatology to dendrochronology to marine biologists and oceanography along with dozens of other scientific professions have pooled their knowledge and come to the same conclusion.

    But, then you know more than all of them combined. It must be nice to have a direct line to God so that you can be so absolute in your opinions.

    I won’t be here in 30 years, but I hope you are.

    And what’s the down side of clean energy? Clean air? Clean water? More jobs? The only people running off to the bank and laughing all the way are the Koch brothers and other coal mine owners who have spent millions to convince you and have.

    And in the meantime we’re shipping our coal to China so they can create more jobs over there. More of OUR jobs.

    Oh happy day!

    And while you’re paying a monthly bill to your energy company, home builders here in WA are building homes that don’t require a connection to the power grid. They’re self-sufficient. I’d love to not have that bill come every month, wouldn’t you? That extra cash would help with the grocery bill or add to my savings account.

  67. Well, Golden, that warmed my heart! Even your well crafted insult was received nicely. Thanks!

    I wonder, to this panel…what is your reaction to Bloomberg’s locking up formula and insisting new mothers breastfeed? Those who refuse to breast feed will receive formula, but every time they bottle feed their baby they will receive a “talking to” about the benefits of breastfeeding. Doesn’t this go against the, “My body, My Choice” belief?

  68. Cheryl, you never give up, do you?
    Have you ever heard anyone hear applauding what Bloomberg is doing in New York? The man is an independent, with some very strong views and it appears he is very concerned about the health of New Yorkers. Maybe he is trying to bring down the costs of health care, or at the very least save money that would be going to Medicare, Medicaid, insurance companies.
    Breast feeding is well known to be very beneficial to the health of infants, but not every woman want to or can breast feed, but I am not appaled by his decision. Formula will be available. But a “talking to” can not compare to a politician that wants me to carry my rape baby to term or stick a vaginal probe into my vagina, and tell me that the abortion that I want will give me breast cancer, which is a lie.
    Sooo to answer your question. What Bloomberg does in New York doesn’t hold a candle to the wingnuts in the republican party, that are pandering to the teavangelics.

  69. Sydney;
    You’re very quick to be judgmental.
    As a newbie here, how would I know what your thoughts about Bloomberg are?
    I just read an article and wondered what everyone thought… apparently, any chance you can pounce on someone you take it. Good job, Sydney.

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